dont get lost in technicalities

[Kasey]

I've heard some of the music and production value you consider to be good from this thread: http://www.homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=165109


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that guy is a genius of experimentation if you would take the time to listen to his recordings.

beyond that, you have no idea if we were actually putting too much bass in - you werent there. it was not muddy, everything could be heard perfectly, we had made a pocket for everything, and it was one of the best live mixes we had ever done.

 

[ROblows]

that guy is a genius of experimentation if you would take the time to listen to his recordings.

I like the Microphones quite a bit, though I do find some of their stuff a little grating on the ear. I sure wouldn't want someone to make my church choir sound like that.

 

[Kasey]

I like the Microphones quite a bit, though I do find some of their stuff a little grating on the ear. I sure wouldn't want someone to make my church choir sound like that.

I wouldnt use his sounds for a church choir either, unless maybe it was my own material for recording. When i stated that live sound is an art, i didnt mean art as in being experimental about things, its an art in the fact that you are trying to acheive maximum emotional impact (hey, we're singing about jesus right?), just like you are in recording. The only difference is that you can add on experimental stuff in recording.

 

[chessrock]

you have no idea if we were actually putting too much bass in - you werent there. it was not muddy, everything could be heard perfectly, we had made a pocket for everything, and it was one of the best live mixes we had ever done.

You're probably right. I wasn't there, so I can't make a judgement call one way or the other. I'm just going off of impressions.

And after listening to the microphones, I have to admit it was interesting music, and he expresses himself well within the art medium he's working in. The production value is very bad, obviously, but it sounds like that's actually part of the artistic aim he's shooting for.

 

[Kasey]

And after listening to the microphones, I have to admit it was interesting music, and he expresses himself well within the art medium he's working in. The production value is very bad, obviously, but it sounds like that's actually part of the artistic aim he's shooting for.

he makes the most of very very little. my studio is nicer than his, and my studio is next to nothing. it just goes to show that a little can go a long way if you're creative with it.

 

[chessrock]

Well, I suppose if your aim is to make something that, sonically-speaking, is extremely low-fi and trashy-sounding, then it would certainly be to one's advantage to have very modest gear to work with. So in this instance, a little really does go a long way.

 

[RAMI]

Heeee Heeee!

 

[Kasey]

Well, I suppose if your aim is to make something that, sonically-speaking, is extremely low-fi and trashy-sounding, then it would certainly be to one's advantage to have very modest gear to work with. So in this instance, a little really does go a long way.

you have got to be one of the most close minded engineers i have ever come in contact with. if you would just listen to his stuff you'd discover that he is brilliant.

 

[RAMI]

So if someone doesn't agree with you...THEY'RE close minded??? That's ironic.

 

[Kasey]

So if someone doesn't agree with you...THEY'RE close minded??? That's ironic.

no, if someone doesnt agree with me, they merely have a different opinion. if someone wont even give my opinion a chance (chessrock hasnt even listen to any of this guys stuff besides that one song) then theyre close minded. Recording is supossed to be an art form - otherwise i wouldnt be doing it. As an art form, experimentation should be encouraged, not disregarded and even put down.

 

[RAMI]

How many times do you need to eat something before you decide you don't like it? If it's more than once then that's just plain abnormal. The fact is, right from the beginning of this thread you've made it clear that you like to laugh at people behind their backs, criticise when someone's not ther to defend themselves, and call people names when they don't agree with you. Like I said before, not very "Christian". It sort of gives the whole "hiding behind religion just to come off as righteous" thing a bad name.

 

[fraserhutch]

no, if someone doesnt agree with me, they merely have a different opinion. if someone wont even give my opinion a chance (chessrock hasnt even listen to any of this guys stuff besides that one song) then theyre close minded. Recording is supossed to be an art form - otherwise i wouldnt be doing it. As an art form, experimentation should be encouraged, not disregarded and even put down.

Experimentation is one thing. The art part of it is knowing when you have something that works. I would bet that they probably experiement all the time, and have made certain determinations that apparently you don't get. You experiment on YOUR time; when you are working with others (as they are) you try to deliver what others consider acceptable.

And the hiding poor skills behind the "art is experimentation" schtick is so old hat. I usually only hear it from people who are unable to get a "mainstream" sound (emphasis on unable rather than unwilling). My position is that those with true skills learn the craft first, then learn how to break the rules. Then you have cred inho.

About the spectral analyzer, my guess is that they have become frustrated at trying to get their point across to you, and are thinking of the analyzer as a means of demontrating visually what they believe you don't get aurally.

You have done nothing but make fun of and rail against those dues. that is sooo uncool. In fact, I see nothing out of place in what they have said.

Not really meaning to come across as harsh, but this is what I'm hearing here.

 

[Kasey]

fuck doing things by the book all the time. if i were in a rock band and i went to a studio and the engineer made us sound like every other rock band on the radio at the time - i would be pissed.
my opinion was doomed the moment blue bear made his post.

 

[ROblows]

fuck doing things by the book all the time. if i were in a rock band and i went to a studio and the engineer made us sound like every other rock band on the radio at the time - i would be pissed.

If my goal was to be on the radio, I'd be pretty happy with that.

On the other hand, if I was in a church choir and our soundman and his friend were constantly doing "weird stuff" to my mix, I'd probably be pissed.

 

[Kasey]

If my goal was to be on the radio, I'd be pretty happy with that.

are you saying you'd want to sound like everyone else?? are you a musician? right mindedness is taking over...

 

[fraserhutch]

fuck doing things by the book all the time. if i were in a rock band and i went to a studio and the engineer made us sound like every other rock band on the radio at the time - i would be pissed.
my opinion was doomed the moment blue bear made his post.

It had nothing to do with Blue Bear.

No one said anything about doing things by the book all the time. Some of the time helps. And so does not coming here and not dissing people.

Also, the audio engineer has a duty to make you sound like YOU. If YOU sound unique, then you won't sound like everyone else. If you sound different ONLY because the audio engineer is wonking around with things, then you are still the same as everyone else, it is the engineer who differs.

 

[c7sus]

fuck doing things by the book all the time. if i were in a rock band and i went to a studio and the engineer made us sound like every other rock band on the radio at the time - i would be pissed.
my opinion was doomed the moment blue bear made his post.

That attitude is fine on your own dime.

I'm sure nearly everyone will agree it won't fly for a hot second on somebody else's dime.

Gotta lotta dimes???

 

[ROblows]

are you saying you'd want to sound like everyone else?? are you a musician? right mindedness is taking over...

What part of "if" don't you understand? If my goal was to get on the radio, I would probably want to sound like bands that get on the radio. Doesn't that make sense?

Look, if a client comes to me, as a recording engineer, and tells me that they want to sound like Nickleback, I'm going to do what I can to help make them sound like Nickleback. I'm not going to insist that I be able to experiment and do "weird stuff" with their sound and make them sound "unique" or sound like the Microphones or other bands I like. My aesthetic preferences are irrelevant in that case.

On the other hand, if the band asks for my input and wants my opinion on arrangements or sounds or whatever, I will offer that to the best of my abilities. I can tell you, though, that I have done my fair share of live sound and I have never had a band in that context ask me to mess with their sound, do "weird things" or try to make them sound "unique". Bands usually see that as their job. If I was to do that, I can pretty-much guarantee that any band I've worked with would be mighty pissed at me.

You're simply confusing what is proper and right when creating your own music with what is proper and right when dealing with somebody else's music.

 

[eraos]

fuck doing things by the book all the time. if i were in a rock band and i went to a studio and the engineer made us sound like every other rock band on the radio at the time - i would be pissed.
my opinion was doomed the moment blue bear made his post.

Recently, I was reading the Navy Training Course Book in harmony that my grandfather had given to me.. how to create harmonies on top of melodies and stuff... (1961). Anyway, I came across an interesting passage.

"Both the art of melody writing and the art of chord building are governed by rules that are derived from an analysis of music itself. Master composers write pieces of music from which the theorist, by analysis and study, deduces certain truths. These principles, which are found to be true of most music, are formulated into rules for teaching purposes, and must be followed closely by the student while he is learning the art of music writing."

Anyway, I just thought I'd throw that in there, since it relates to the topic of following "the book", though not the specifics of the discussion. Hope it means something to someone.

 

[e-man]

to break the rules you got to know the rules.

i'm still learning the rules.