Dongle Crack for SX 2

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dealwithit said:
People seem to have a "ahh, these kids these days, they don't want to work for anything, they just want it handed to them" attitude. Yes, maybe they do, but just maybe, after having it shoved in their faces for so long, the old "why not me" argument takes over their moral value against a perceived wrong, and they go ahead and download Cubase, play with it for a week or two, then uninstall it to make room for their cracked "Doom 3". It's honestly that pervasive, it's everywhere. Product activation may sound like Big Brother, but it's coming, and soon.

Hey dealwithit, welcome to the boards. The story you tell is not uncommon, and I am very sure many end up turning to cracked software in the way you describe. But what we need are stronger "kids these days" that can look at people doing illegal activites and even though they feel like "everyone else is doing it" so "why not me", do the right thing in spite of what they see. If nothing else, even if they can approach it with a philosophy of "what if everyone in the world did this, what would happen?". If they could even think that far in advance they would realize that the computer software market that they so love, would collapse in utter ruin if "everyone" was REALLY doing it.

What they DON'T see is that people who pay for their software, they don't spend time building websites that glorify paying for their software, unlike those who steal software and then want others to do the same in an effort to bring others down to their level and create an environment where they are actually looked up to and thanked for their crimes, rather than looked down on for them. Here, we WON'T glorify those people, and we tell it like it is in an effort to educate them and hopefully make them see they are hurting many people in thier quest to get everything for nothing. It suprises many people that come here for advice on cracked software because I think they spend so much time in these warez sites that they actually think that everyone DOES steal software. They are surrounded by thieves and post on threads with them and share things like nothing is wrong so they come to believe the lie themselves that they are in the right.

The truth is, I believe, they are in the minority, but when you surround yourself heavily with people that do as you do....you often can't see beyond your own social circle. I just wish they could elevate their thinking to see the truth beyond their rationalizations and illogical assertions. Their actions speak louder about who they are deep down, than I think they realize.
 
I honestly dont know where you guys are getting the energy to keep up with this thread !
 
Put your energies to use...!!

Don't think I've ever seen a topic this long. I think Hector's got the message, guys (if he remembers posting this!).

Now you've all had your say, put your energies to use and **Vote John Kerry!!!** :) Please...
 
Bass Master "K" said:
The truth is, I believe, they are in the minority, but when you surround yourself heavily with people that do as you do....you often can't see beyond your own social circle. I just wish they could elevate their thinking to see the truth beyond their rationalizations and illogical assertions.
Thanks for the welcome.
I believe you are exactly correct in this point, and you explain it in a better way than I did. They "can't see beyond their own social circle" is exactly the cause of alot of the problems of modern society. People say "how can xxxx group of people live that way?", and it comes down to the fact that that's all they ever knew.
Bass Master "K" said:
Their actions speak louder about who they are deep down, than I think they realize.
On this point you and I disagree. I don't think it has to do with who they are deep down. I don't think of these people as "common thieves". I know alot of these people. Just because I'm not one of them, doesn't mean that I think there is some fatal flaw in them. It's just, as you put it, they can't see beyond what they've been taught, what they know as right and wrong. To justify piracy is no different than to justify any other strange (to others) belief. There are people out there who believe that small gnomes live in our stomachs, influencing our health. Strange to you and me, but as you say, they cannot see beyond their own social circle. Our country is currently dealing with people whose value of human life includes beheading as a source of revenge for perceived wrongs. Brutal to us, but within the realm of their lives.

Would these people steal your car, or for that matter, anything physical? I doubt it, and I practically know it amongst the people I know who <gasp> download mp3's and crack software. I don't agree with that particular facet of their lives, but then again, I may have beliefs that they don't agree with.

I am NOT defending piracy. It may seem that I am, but I am just defending people's right to different value systems and beliefs. It goes back to the old quote: "I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
 
HumanBean16 said:
Now you've all had your say, put your energies to use and **Vote John Kerry!!!** :) Please...

:eek:

Nice way to pump more into this thread....it will now live on.

Thank you.
 
dealwithit said:
Thanks for the welcome.
I believe you are exactly correct in this point, and you explain it in a better way than I did. They "can't see beyond their own social circle" is exactly the cause of alot of the problems of modern society. People say "how can xxxx group of people live that way?", and it comes down to the fact that that's all they ever knew.

On this point you and I disagree. I don't think it has to do with who they are deep down. I don't think of these people as "common thieves". I know alot of these people. Just because I'm not one of them, doesn't mean that I think there is some fatal flaw in them. It's just, as you put it, they can't see beyond what they've been taught, what they know as right and wrong. To justify piracy is no different than to justify any other strange (to others) belief. There are people out there who believe that small gnomes live in our stomachs, influencing our health. Strange to you and me, but as you say, they cannot see beyond their own social circle. Our country is currently dealing with people whose value of human life includes beheading as a source of revenge for perceived wrongs. Brutal to us, but within the realm of their lives.

Would these people steal your car, or for that matter, anything physical? I doubt it, and I practically know it amongst the people I know who <gasp> download mp3's and crack software. I don't agree with that particular facet of their lives, but then again, I may have beliefs that they don't agree with.

I am NOT defending piracy. It may seem that I am, but I am just defending people's right to different value systems and beliefs. It goes back to the old quote: "I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

After reconsideration, I want to change my quote :D In reality, it should say that "people don't want to look beyond their social circle", not that they can't. The difference between the piracy issues, and gnomes in stomaches issue, is one of what is taught to you. People who are raised with their parents telling them that there are gomes in their stomach, and they have teachers who confirm, or will not deny that fact and never run into people who can or will tell them different, THOSE people in fact can not see beyond their social circle.

With software theft, it is a different issue. These people DO know deep down that it is wrong, they would just rather not see that it is. They are exposed to people who know it's wrong. They see the documents enclosed with software saying that distributing copies of it is a crime. The probably read articles about it, and/or people or organiztions that get caught. Who hasn't heard about the whole Napster crackdown? They know it is a crime period. They just don't think they will get caught, and they feel like they can get something for nothing. So they choose to hide their eyes, and surround themselves with people who do the same.

If Hector or other people reading this thread REALLY think that stealing software doesn't hurt anybody, then I would challenge them to state this and actually think it is a correct statement:

If EVERYONE turned to using cracked software, no one would be hurt by it.


No one in their right mind could say that and really believe it, and that is what is at the heart of the matter. If you can't say the above statement and truly believe it, then you shouldn't be stealing software.
 
warble said:
:eek:

Nice way to pump more into this thread....it will now live on.

Thank you.

It wasn't done for that reason, and I certainly don't want to start a political discussion in a Cubase forum when there are sites galore elsewhere for that. I just figured that lots of US citizens are members here, and those of who are not US citizens cannot vote, whilst the current deficient American policy affects us all.

I'd love your views, but not here. You can use the Why Bush MUST go! Forum at http://songland.com/songland_forum01/index.php to continue any political discussion.

HB16.
 
HB16, posts like these need to take place in the Cave, or at the very minimum in a thread whose topic would match your subject (which again, would most likely be in the cave). It's obvious you didn't read the whole thread and in no way are taking part in the discussion here. Besides, the Cave has a lot more people in it, and I would imagine more people will see your comments, appropriately labeled, there, than would see your comments buried in nearly 20 pages of discussion probing the downside of stealing software.
 
Hi, Bass Master "K",

That's why I put "I'd love your views, but not here."

I actually have read much of this thread, but I don't think anyone has read it all. Some fascinating points of view have been expressed, in fact.

Thanks for the info. re the Cave - I'll toddle over & have a look... :)

HB16.
 
Anteares said:
To Oscar:

This is a prime example of people who like to think of themselves as good enough to judge character simply because they agree with obeying a redundant law,
Help me with this one. What is a redundant law?

Anteares said:
I can't consider copyright infringment in this case stealing (according to the definiton of stealing...sharing and stealing are 2 different things regardless of what the EULA's say),

Yes they are two different things. Copyright infringement or software piracy is stealing. Sharing is not. It's not rocket science.

By the way the race is over...the bigger thieves have won!

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It's not dead till it stops bleeding...

Screw politics.

And for the record, regardless of how you feel about software piracy, asking how to illegally crack a piece of software on ANY message board, let alone a message board filled with people who've spent money on the software, is a straight dumbass move. No exceptions. No love.

A couple things stated about the pervasiveness of copyright crime - I can attest that at least from my perspective, "everyone's doing it". If you're not, you're missing the trend, because more people do than don't. A lot of it does have to do with your "social circle" (for the puposes of this discussion, I'd like to substitute "culture" for "social circle", because that's what we're really talking about). Like I said, from my cultural perspective, it's the rule and not the exception. Mostly this applies to the downloading of mp3s (which if you take a poll is percieved as 'less wrong' than software piracy), but extends frequently into the ranges of movies, other media, games, and applications.

To the people that do this, it doesn't seem to be 'stealing' - most mp3 pirates just think they're listening to their own personal radio station, since they didn't get any of the trappings (jewel cases, lyric sheets, etc) associated with physically 'stealing' the product - the result seems intangible, like listening to the radio. When I was a kid we dubbed each others' audio tapes and made mixes. Nobody thought that was a crime (when, in fact, it's not exactly kosher legal), and nobody bitched and moaned about it either. It's even more commonplace and culturally accepted (at least in the college-age and younger crowd) to see burned CD's - who here can honestly say, "I don't own a single burned CD, I think it's wrong to burn CDs."?

For the computer-adept generation, there's a very fine line if any at all between tape-dubbing activities and installing a cracked "Doom 3". Friends got it, they give it, you get it, done deal. The internet makes it extremely easy to do this, but it would be done anyway even without the internet. Point is, some kids are going to buy Doom 3 just BECAUSE they saw or played a cracked version. Kids who never would have bought it otherwise.

The same IS true of music, believe it or not. I download mp3s. I am also an avid CD collector. I never would have even known about certain artists, let alone been interested in buying their albums, if I hadn't stumbled across a remix here, or a live set there, or a Filesharing Program User's file list containing several of my favorite artists along with some I'd never heard of... I've spent more money buying CDs BECAUSE of downloading mp3s than saving money by stealing the songs. Most of the time I end up buying albums even if I've already downloaded every track on it, just to have and hold the real deal. Artists like Jaga Jazzist, Amon Tobin, Squarepusher - each of which have multiple real CDs in my collection - I never would have known about AT ALL if not for searching for rare Orbital and Rupert Parkes mp3s. And so what, I even found those rare concert performances by Orbital I was looking for - they were files I couldn't have bought with a million dollars anyway. I also don't waste money buying Antiloop or Lawrence Garnier CDs, because one track was enough to tell me I didn't need to spend that $20.

Again, the same is true for software. If I'd rather download a track or two before spending $20 on a CD, you bet I'm going to download and check out the $800 music software before paying even the $49-$99 for it's cheap-ass competitor, let alone the full bucks for the real deal. As impulsive as I am, I'd give up on a demo (I did, actually, give up on the Reason demo, and have been soured to Reason ever since), but with the ability to play around with, say, Cubase SX for a few weeks - I start lusting after the program and think about how many more paychecks until I can order it. I've spent easily a thousand dollars or more on simple things - FruityLoops, CoolEdit, various little pieces of hardware - that I ABSOLUTELY WOULD NEVER HAVE BOUGHT if I hadn't been able to download and tweak out with cracked versions.

I'm not going to be sorry for the way I act, and I think I'm doing the right thing... some of that opinion is culturally generated (input from friends and peers), and some of it is internally generated. I weigh both sides... in my day to day life, no one bats an eye at being told "I got 3DStudio MAX on Kaazaa last night!". That doesn't mean I think it's right to steal that software, but I also know that the thief probably won't have it for long and it's merely to suit a passing fancy (like enjoying that song you heard on the radio). If they're really into it, they'll want real software to do the stuff they want. In the end, it's not really anyone's loss, it's a try-before-you-buy mentality. I grew up downloading Apogee shareware games from local BBSs (Commander Keen, anyone?), so try-before-you-buy is kind of built into my way of thinking.

Sure, maybe I'm the 'moral thief', the departure from normal thieves, who actually gives back and pays for things even though he knows he doesn't really 'have to'. But in the end, I think that's what most people do. Most of the points I've made here have been about mp3's and not dongle cracks for Cubase, but really isn't it the same thing? And if not, where do we draw the line?

Flamers - FLAME ON! Pick me apart. But I think you'll find, especially as years drag on, that music and software piracy is here to stay. If it was here and common in the days of vcr-dubbing and audiotape-dubbing, and ever since the first computer disk containing a program was distributed, I don't think that the added distribution factor of the internet is going to quell it.

And if they DO go for Big-Brother-esque online product activations, all that will do is prompt a new era of identity theft. People want things, they're going to take them. If they don't care that they're stealing from a record company, how will they care that they're stealing from Joe-nobody who's account info they just hijacked?

anyway, some thoughts - tell me what you think. Am I a bad person?
 
Burden of Proof said:
doesn't mean I think it's right to steal that software, but I also know that the thief probably won't have it for long and it's merely to suit a passing fancy (like enjoying that song you heard on the radio).
The only thief you know about is you. So you justify your crime by paying for the merchandise after you steal it. Big deal, give me a break, you're still a thief.
Sure, maybe I'm the 'moral thief', the departure from normal thieves, who actually gives back and pays for things even though he knows he doesn't really 'have to'.
Man have some balls here. Not only are you a chincy thief but you're a lousy liar. You are what you are, morally bankrupt. Now go crawl back in your hole and go away.
 
Burden of Proof said:
Am I a bad person?
Same tired old rationalizations for theft......... nothing's changed.

So the answer to your question is YES....... :rolleyes:
 
thieves and liars

Okay, I'm certainly not the only thief out there. If you think so, you're fooling yourself. We're so overflowing with thieves, that the younger ones somehow think it's okay to ask advice about thieving practices on a public forum. I know more people who DO download these things from various sources than people who do not. Which is a culture thing. It's representative of my cultural influence that we (yes, I'll lump myself in here too) think of downloading copyrighted material as 'okay'. I've always thought of it kind of like the FBI warning on movies - it's illegal to record and re-sell, or to charge an audience to view. In this case, if you want to make money with it then pay for it.

And there's plenty of things I never pay for. I never make money with them either. Some of them I even keep and use, so I guess that does make me a total nasty bad person thief. But the real reason for me posting is that I don't think of myself as a bad person, and I'm not lying - every day in the office where I work the employees are talking about music, movies, games and programs they've downloaded (read as: stolen), like it was totally standard. And it is. Does this make it right? That's a morality question for the ages - your morality says 'no, it's not' and my morality sends me back to the filesharing program weekly if not daily.

I may justify this for myself by actually buying the things I like or use a lot, and some of that has to come from a realization that in the end you should pay for things instead of stealing them. But that doesn't stop me from downloading them first. And it doesn't stop the majority of people (in my experience at least) from downloading whatever they can, without ever even asking those questions about moral obligation.

I also firmly believe that in the case of particular music and softwares, companies have made money on me because of the filesharing phenomenon. Case in point, FruityLoops and everything it has lead me towards doing since then. If I didn't find a 'free' version of this software and fiddle with it for months, I never would have gotten into music making as much as I have, and thereby denied several companies several hundred dollars of my money by not buying the software/hardware that that cracked program got me interested in. Probably wouldn't be posting here now, actually - which I'm sure would be a relief to the one-sided ways of thinking around here.

Here's where you tell me if I didn't get into it without the cracked program, I don't deserve to be into it at all - and maybe you're right - but things are as they are and I am thankful that playing with cracked programs has gotten me as interested as it has. And if I like a program and buy it, well then that's better than NOT buying it, right?

What I'm saying, one more time, is it's rediculous to be so blindly opposed to the 'super evil scum of humanity' who download music and programs even when it violates copyrights. It's been happening for a long time and it's not about to stop happening. And for me it's been a good and fulfilling experience. You can tell me that that makes me a bad person, but deep down I'm going to know that I'm not a bad person at all. I'm a normal person, like most of the people I know, and I do what makes sense to me. To say that it shouldn't happen or that it can't happen or that it's the root of all evil is almost as dumb as asking how to do it on this forum. It's denial.

I think the zealots of software copyrights have to ask themselves where their motivation stems from. I think it's the feeling of personal affront that comes when you hear someone getting what you paid for for free. If not, it's the fear that their practices are somehow hurting you - either by raising the price of the software or stealing possible profits from you for your hard work - in either case a rationalization at least as extreme as those made by filesharing supporters.

I don't really claim to be on either side - I download AND I pay. I just oppose irrational thought. And there's plenty spewing from both sides of this dividing line.

And I think the term you were looking for NYMorningstar was "chintzy" as in "possesing of chintz". Not sure exactly how you meant it, but I'm pretty sure that's the word you were looking for. I suppose as opposed to a 'glamorous' thief. And you're right - I'm a HORRIBLE liar - which is why I don't do it. Which is also why I can't ride the 'stealing is evil' train - because it's become such an acceptable part of life, that's all that's left to do - accept it.
 
*yawn* You trying to convince yourself? Because you're certainly not convincing me, or anyone else opposed to theft......... :rolleyes:
 
Burden of Proof said:
that's all that's left to do - accept it.

Okay so you've accepted it. That doesn't mean I have to do the same.

Illegal downloading is rife as you say but lots of people do still pay for software. Otherwise thre'd be no software for you to steal. I personally would not go so far as to say you're "evil", but what you choose to do in that one particular area of your life (which is the only thing I know about you) is, in my opinion, morally wrong.
 
Burden of Proof said:
- I'm a HORRIBLE liar - which is why I don't do it. Which is also why I can't ride the 'stealing is evil' train - because it's become such an acceptable part of life, that's all that's left to do - accept it.
There's no need to come here to confess your sins, save it for church. Go back and read your own post and see the lies and contradictions for yourself. Show me a thief that isn't a liar and I'll show you a dog without a bone.
 
burden of proof . heres my argument for paying for software.
yeah - i'm one of those "evil" computer types who rip off people
some would say. with high prices etc. DEFINITELY NOT !
i want you to think about one thing. and i'll give you some insights into the computer development industry which ive worked in for eons. not developing music software but working on the big stuff like huge banking, industrial,
and government systems and networks.now i'm semi retired.
firstly think about this. the developers who bring to market the music software are just like other folks. work long hours. have mortgages to pay.
have children they are raising to the best of their ability and babies etc.
they are often true professionals who dedicate their lives to outting out the best they can. ive worked with some of the best around.
like everything else there are poor developers who dont give a rats , but on the whole we are a dedicated bunch. and all the ones i know - dont sit in some office somewhere to purposefully rip off consumers.
most of the ones ive known are purely trying to put out the best product they can using their in depth education and technical experience. the same way as a seasoned AE trys to take a band and make it sound the best.
The next time you feel the urge to take something , think about the fact that this could lead to good honest people losing their jobs due to declining revenues where they work, and just maybe also that they have a hard time feeding their children as a result. i guarantee this thought alone will make you think twice about taking without paying.
i find it interesting that some folks say well i cant afford the software then you find out they have a rack of expensive preamps.
there is no reason to take without paying anyway these days.
there are many affordable under 100 dollar pro/shareware/freeware
recording products that will get great results like
ntrack,traktion,powertracks and magix(both i use),multitrackstudio.com(damn superb)....and the free audacity, hotstepper. and free audio editors like sound engine and many many other products.
in closing i would like to say us computer people are not evil. we are normal
folks like you, and often have to give up a lot of home life the rest of you take for granted to bring you the best we can.
for example when a banks big computer systems crash, who do you think picks up the pieces, ?? so you can continue to use the atm or whatever. probably some poor soul pulling an all nighter and his wife and kids dont see him that day.
just my 2 cents.
 
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