Doing home recordings with my guitar and computer....

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WATYF

WATYF

...happier than you.
So I got this new Taylor acoustic guitar with a Fishman pickup... and I got a new computer...right about the same time...and I wanna start just doing some recording on my 'puter... nothing fancy... I just wanna be able to record a track... lay down another track... maybe throw a vocal track in there....put em together and see how it sounds.... now... I got a few demos of multi-track recorders/mixers off the net... I have a decent mic... (because I've already done recording on a Tascam) but I don't know what to do next... how do I get the sound from my guitar... into my computer...?

WATYF
 
This topic has been discussed here hundreds of times here so I'll be brief. Search this and the newbie threads for more info...

Setup #1:

Guitar -> Microphone -> Preamp -> Soundcard's Line In Port.

Setup #2:

Guitar Pickup -> Preamp/DI Box -> Soundcard's Line In Port.

Basically you need to get a line level signal into your soundcard.

Hints:

1) You can't use the Micrphone In port on your soundcard for anything. Don't bother with it as it's designed ONLY for computer mics.

2) It's unlikely that using your guitar's pickup into a preamp into your soundcard (Setup #2) will provide good results unless you use some sort of DI box. That is, a box that emulates a real amplifier and cabinet (see www.line6.com and www.tech21.com) If you really have a good microphone, then that's probably your best bet.

3) Lots of devices can act as preamps. Think about it. Might not sound good but you'll be able to play around.

Your soundcard, microphone, and preamp will all make a HUGE difference in how well your sound is going to be. Also, your computer will dicate how many tracks and realtime effects you can manage. Why not post your setup in greater detail.

Slackmaster 2000
 
Well... I have an AMD K6-2 500mhz with 64MB RAM... I have access to pretty much any mic... SM57, SM58, and other kinds like AKG vocal mics... and I think I can get a D/I because we use them at my live gigs alot, but if a mic would sound better.. it's alot easier to get a mic and just play into that... as for my soundcard... I don't know... It came in the computer... this "brief" description of it came in the documentation... I don't know if anyone can decifer it... but I guess this tells me what I have...

Audio: Integrated 3D Sound PRO:

Provides MPU-401 Game/MIDI port and Legacy Sound Blaster 16 Support
HRTF 3D Positional Audio Technology Supports 4 Channel Speakers
Supports Microsoft Direct Sound 3D interface
Full Duplex Playback and Recording, Built-in 16-bits CODEC
Digital Audio Interface with 24-bit stereo, 44KHz sampling rate and measured
120dB audio quality
Stereo Mixer Supports Analog Mixing from CD-Audio, Line-In, and Digital Mixing
from Voice, FM/Wave-table and digital CD-Audio.

so anyway... that's what I have to work with...

WATYF
 
Hmm... well, a couple things.

1) That AMD processor will work, but you won't get great results if you're planning on using a bunch of DX effects. If you don't know what I'm talking about, don't worry yet...you'll know when you need a better processor (e.g. Intel Celeron, PII, or PIII).

2) Integrated sound is sends chills through many of our bones around here. "Integrated" means that the "soundcard", for all intents and purposes, is right on the motherboard (as opposed to a seperate card). Typically integrated soundcards are of very poor quality as they are designed for cheap, entry level PC's where great audio isn't really a big deal. Problems usually start to arise when you decide to get a better soundcard. Either a) you'll need a way to disable the onboard sound via the bios or jumpers or b) you can't disable for "real" so you disable it via windows & cross your fingers or c) you run with two sound"cards" and cross your fingers.

You'll know almost immediately whether your soundcard will be adequate. Signs of a horrible soundcard are a) noise floors above -65db b) horrible dynamic response...either you'll get too much signal or not enough, but nothing in between c) dull crappy sound due to poor frequency response d) distortion, crackling, etc.

If it works, great. If it doesn't work then decent consumer grade cards for recording are the SB Live!, SB PCI128, Ensoniq AudioPCI. These are "ok" cards for $20 - 80. "Prosumer" cards with good AD converters, DSP processing, and multiple inputs/outputs can be had for $250 into the 1000's.

BTW, to find out which soundcard (or audio chipset) you have, right click on My Computer and select Properties. Then choose Device Manager and select Sound Video and Game Adapters and write down all the numbers you see there. If you see ESSxxxx or CSxxxx you might be SOL.

3) The hard drive will be a big bottleneck and will dictate how many tracks you can work with at once. A UDMA/33 5400RPM drive is adequate but an ATA/66 7200RPM drive is better.

BLAH. I'm just rambling some things you might need to consider down the road.

Right now, get yourself a decent microphone or two for your acoustic and a decent preamp since you seem to have access to them. Then plug the output of the preamp into the LINE IN port on your soundcard (using whatever adapters you need to...they all exist). In your soundcard's mixer (or the windows recording/volume control) make sure that LINE IN is selected and the volume is up. (BTW, watch the output of that preamp at first so you don't overload the soundcard).

Note that your soundcard only has one Line In port, but it is stereo. With a Y-adapter or mixing board (pan hard right & hard left), you can record two individual tracks at once. Set your software to record in stereo, then split the stereo track when you're done recording. (this is a better option than using a mixing board and recording both microphones to one track because you'll have the ability to modify each microphone's track)

Good luck. Just be logical about things and don't do anything you're not comfortable with. Getting things plugged in right is trivial compared to the bigger picture :)

Slackmaster 2000
 
Thanks for all your help so far... it's all rather mind boggling right now, but I can tell you what my sound card shows up as on the "Device Manager" screen. The following were all under "Sound, Video and Game controllers"

CMI8338/C3DX PCI Audio Legacy Device
CMI8738/C3DX PCI Audio Device
DOS Mode MPU-401 Emulator
Gameport Joystick
Wave Device for Voice Modem

That's what I got.. and I'll talk to my sound guy about preamps and what to use and how and all that garbage.

WATYF

P.S. Are you sure about the Intel comparison? A K6-2 can wipe the floor with a Celeron, especially at 500mhz, and it even comes in just above a PII 500mhz. It's still below a PIII but I'm still sure it can handle whatever I throw at it.
 
My question is this--why buy a Taylor guitar and then use the pickup to record? Unless you're really into that type of sound (one of the few who do it well is Craig Chaquico or Pierre Bensusan), it will take a good microphone to do justice to the Taylor sound. I see guitar pickups mainly as a useful device for live performing. Granted it's a way to record quick and easy, particularly if you don't have a quiet studio space, but try micing the guitar and you'll appreciate what you're missing using just the pickup.
 
WATYF, you're way off with your K6 - Celeron comparison. The K6-2 processor is comparable to the PII/Celeron only in business applications. The K6-3 is FASTER than the PII & PIII in business applications due primarily to its larger full-speed cache.

But we're talking about some serious multimedia processing requiring the best FPU support possible. As you may not know, the K6-2 and K6-3 (NOT the Athlon) are both extremely weak when it comes to floating point math and was slightly compensated for by 3D Now! instructions which of course don't apply to the audio processing we're dealing with. And the larger cache of the K6-3 means little when it comes to realtime multimedia applications. This is what makes the Celeron/PII a great processor for the money.

I have a K6-2 400Mhz sitting right behind me. I used the thing for quite some time and now I hate the damn thing. The system I'm currently using is a Celeron 400 and it absolutely kicks the AMD's processor after adding only a few realtime effects. I'm talking about the ability to handle more tracks and more effects, a seriously noticeable difference!

But I understand if you don't want to take my word for it:

Flavio Antonioli, Author of n-Track Studio:

"Regarding to the CPU brand, Intel processors should be preferred because their floating point performances are considerably better than that of their competitors, and the program uses a lot of floating point math. The difference becomes particularly noticeable when applying realtime effects."
- http://www.fasoft.com/

Roll Your Own by Pete Leoni at Prorec.com: http://www.prorec.com/prorec/articles.nsf/files/CBDB27C9A605B9F2862566880018C085

Here's a decent comparison. Notice that the K6 looks absolutely great until we get into FPU speed which is absolutely critical! http://www.pctechware.com/articles/k6-2vcel-4.html

BOBMARKS! Let's test that FPU efficiency: http://www.ece.orst.edu/~rose/bobmark/

Blah blah. Do a quick search on infoseek for +Celeron +K6 +FPU or search this forum. I'm not trying to say that your K6-2 *won't* work. It's just that every two to three weeks someone comes along claiming that the K6 processor provides more bang for the buck than the PII when it comes to recording and it's just not true and every single time I go into some longwinded thing like this :) I

Anyway, I'm not familiar with your soundcard. But as I said before, you'll know quickly if it'll be adequate. Good luck!

Slackmaster 2000
 
Hey man, no problem... Like I said, I've never used computers for recording before so I didn't know if there was some reason why the PII would be better, but now I know,... and I'm quite thoroughly informed on it too, I might add. :) Thanks for the "longwinded" explaination... I like people who are really blunt when they know they're right... (myself being one of them) ;)

In responce to Tapehead's post,.. I have recorded live and in studio before (so at least I don't sound like an idiot on THIS subject) and I totally understand the deficiencies of recording through a pick-up... I was just looking for the fastest easiest way to get the sound into my 'puter. Trust me... I have yet to hear a pick-up that does justice to ANY guitar... Taylor or otherwise :)

WATYF
 
What I've been experimenting with lately is recording a mic and my pickup at the same time. If you mix the two together, you can come up with some interesting and natural sounds that are real crisp. But then I'm compensating for the fact that I only have an SM57 which is horrible for acoustic guitar.

You might look into something like this though as a lot of people seem to do it (or have tried it). If you use a Y-cable (two mono into one stereo) you can record two tracks at once on a regular soundcard.

Slackmaster 2000
 
Actually, I've already done that,... On one of my previous analog recordings, I split out two guitar tracks using an AKG vocal mic (fairly decent) and the pick-up,.. that way I could EQ each one separately... It worked out pretty good... I was able to make it sound ALOT better than with just the pick-up alone,... that much is for sure.
I think that would sound good for what I plan on doing, but I'm probably just gonna go with a mic/preamp setup for now... thanks for all your input..

WATYF
 
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