doesn't auto tune sort of defeat the purpose?

  • Thread starter Thread starter grn
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Hi Glyn,

You are not missing anything; that is precisely why I posted. Because I learned the hard way that even the simplest recording act has consequences.

I had (hazily) talked to both girl and mom about 'adding instruments' and everyone involved felt that 'that would be nice'. The fuse is now lit. How big the explosion gets depends now mostly on me, and I made it big enough by my 'adding'.

They knew (very vaguely) what tools I had, in terms of keyboard, drum machine and such, so it was never 'do you want the Memphis Horns or don't you?' (you get the point.) But they didn't know. They didn't know what to ask for, and they didn't know what NOT to ask for. And that's where I fell though.

I became...'The Producer.' "I know. Trust me. I will make you glow with my additions."
The Piano. The Drums. I still enjoy what I did to the recording, because it does complement the song, but that is not the point. The point is:

Here's your sub; what would you like on it.

Sometimes it is just that. Give them what they want. And get what they want in writing. I have no excuse; I simply didn't follow practical guidelines, even on this 'simple home recording.' I failed the Basic Business test here, even if I were just recording 'a friend' 'at home' 'just to'...(you fill the blank.)

I am ok with it now; I was just very upset and drained and self-defensive for many days after.
I will go in and mix her, her guitar, and my bass (after clearing it with her) for a basic rendition which is what should have been on the CD I sent after two weeks of mixing and timing hell. Back then, after hearing that, she and I could have discussed arrangement options. I got carried away.

I won't make much off this, but I can live with that. I did enjoy stepping up to the plate, and the slap of reality in the face, and your post, made me realize that creative instincts can sometimes be your worst enemy (if you don't get approval.)

Thanks for responding,

CC.
 
wildflower soul said:
it made my voice sound like a chipmunk when a local producer used it on me... i couldnt sing that hi pitched even if i wanted to and it sounds horrible.
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Your producer wasn't doing it right.
 
Cosmic,

Maybe it won't be wasted. 6 months from now they may re-assess the orchestration and like what you did. You never know. At very least they have an 'alternative version' of the stuff.

This all brings to mind what Phil Spector did to the Beatles 'let It be' tapes!!

Yes, it's difficult to help a client when they aren't sure what they want in the first place!
 
I have recently acquired Autotune and you will see I posted a lot of threads wjile trying to get to grips with it. I thank everyone who helped out.

Now I have it, I think it is definitely a useful tool but I will not use the Automatic method, I will only use the Grahic method here and there to fix the vocals and find it is very useful for lead guitar as well.

You are not always able to cut the perfect vocals and the truth is that there are times certain errant notes skip your attention until you are listening back days after the session. That is where it comes in useful. In my opinion, it is not always practical or cost effective to re-record and when you have a tool like this, use it.

Using AT is no different from using racks of dynamic processing to make the sound better. Long as it doesn't sound mechanical (except that's what you're going for), then it's all good.
 
Glyn,

The Plot Thickens....message from Young Hopeful's mom: 'Hi, we'd love to see the two of you (I'm married) for brunch tomorrow (Sunday); and by the way, could you bring the version you did of .......'s recording, even though she thinks it is not 'folksy' enough. We'd like to hear it."
Husband chimes in: "Yes, we'd like to have a copy of it."

Soo...some transatlantic conversations have been taking place...the human dynamics in this are getting quite fascinating...knowing these people for many years, I'd say mama could easily become a real 'Stage Mama' with the daughter, pushing and such.

I don't want to make the daughter feel I hung her out to dry with her parents, or that I violated the trust we have between us (she is quite shy/insecure in many ways about her music, but told friends afterwards that although she was very nervous when she showed up, she had a great time with me recording her.) So, caution is the word tomorrow.

At least I feel I now have more of a chance to recoup the cost of the hours spent, because with the 'full' version now being "aired", and possibly acquired, it could now become a paying item, in addition to the 'unplugged' one Young Hopeful wants.
But, I am not counting on anything yet...
See what you got yourself into by responding; a true-life, home-recording thriller :-)

I'll let you know what happens.

Best,

CC
 
How about this scenario?

Back in August I recorded my parents' 50th wedding anniv celebration - just another excuse for a bunch of musicians to play and party. We had everything from karaoke, live instruments with drum loops, to complete bands. I played bass as part of the classic rock set.

I recorded off the PA mix to a 4-track cassette deck. When I got back home with the tapes I dicovered, to my horror, that my bass playing was not in the FOH mix. Not a hint of it. It's like I wasn't there.

No problem. I just added a bass track. It's cheating, I know, but I didn't try to record perfect bass and the original recording is really missing something without it. I doubt if anyone would be able to tell the difference.

Copies of the final CD will be sent to friends and family and attendees. But do I tell anyone I added tracks? I guess I should and probably will but right now the choice is strictly mine.
 
EddieRay said:
How about this scenario?

Back in August I recorded my parents' 50th wedding anniv celebration - just another excuse for a bunch of musicians to play and party. We had everything from karaoke, live instruments with drum loops, to complete bands. I played bass as part of the classic rock set.

I recorded off the PA mix to a 4-track cassette deck. When I got back home with the tapes I dicovered, to my horror, that my bass playing was not in the FOH mix. Not a hint of it. It's like I wasn't there.

No problem. I just added a bass track. It's cheating, I know, but I didn't try to record perfect bass and the original recording is really missing something without it. I doubt if anyone would be able to tell the difference.

Copies of the final CD will be sent to friends and family and attendees. But do I tell anyone I added tracks? I guess I should and probably will but right now the choice is strictly mine.
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I think the best approach, whether at a family party or a huge pro' concert by a big name artist is to be perfectly honest with people. State it's a 'Live recording with additional overdubs added by...' is the way to do it. This way is not cheating because you are being straight with everyone.

pretending everything heard on the recording was what actualy took place on the day is cheating.

I read an article yesterday that Johnny Cash's famous album 'Live At St.Quentin prison', was actualy overdubbed mostly at a studio afterwards becasue the quality of the recording on the day and musicianship was not good enough to put out! I understand Cash's voice was the original but much of the backing and even the sound of the prisoners cheering may have been overdubbed. I think this is OK if it's explained why it was done.

The object of the excercise is to create a great recording, if this requires overdubs so be it IMO.
 
AutoTune?

grn said:
I recently acquired it... and have played with it, and it can be fun to get a certain effect on some vocals, but I wouldn't want to use it past that... like to fix a pretty bad vocal. I don't know, I just feel like it's cheating. If you can't sing it like that live, you shouldn't be singing it on a record and trying to pass it off. Like Hillary Duff.

What do you guys do? Do you always use it? Use it occasionally? Never? I can understand if you sa, it's a great performance but one note was off... but I mean, using it on a whole track... that's ridiculous.
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never heard of it. there's been 'vocal fixing' capabilities for a long time in PC recording.

I think there's a time and place for everything. But I agree with you and seemingly everyone else. If ya can't sing, don't do it on a record.

what is it? like a pitch shifter/bender? something like that?
 
you plug in the key and it finds the nearest notes you are singing/playing and it corrects them
 
grn said:
I recently acquired it... and have played with it, and it can be fun to get a certain effect on some vocals, but I wouldn't want to use it past that... like to fix a pretty bad vocal. I don't know, I just feel like it's cheating. If you can't sing it like that live, you shouldn't be singing it on a record and trying to pass it off. Like Hillary Duff.

What do you guys do? Do you always use it? Use it occasionally? Never? I can understand if you sa, it's a great performance but one note was off... but I mean, using it on a whole track... that's ridiculous.
Click to expand...


You are working on the flawed theory that the only purpose of recording is to reproduce a sonic event. While that is one possible purpose of recording, it is not the only one. While those are frequently great recordings, they never sound as good as seeing the event live. So why not use the recording process to make something different (note that I did not say better). Most of my favorite recordings are considerably more than just recreating an event. They have (frequently) many overdubs, or sonic manipulation which would not be practical in a live situation.

None the less, I do not like Autotune. Not because it is cheating, or because it defeats the purpose. I dislike Autotune because it SOUNDS BAD, and it is also very obvious to any trained ear anytime it is use. It is not cheating, it just sucks. If they can ever make it sound good, then I would have no problem using it. But the other issue is that, frequently, having vocals (or whatever) out of tune SOUNDS GOOD. The singer almost never hears it that way, but the rest of us know that, if that high note is just a hair flat, that means you really mean what you are singing, and you are fighting to get out what you mean. THAT is what Rock and Roll is all about; fighting to say something.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
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