doesn't auto tune sort of defeat the purpose?

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grn

grn

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I recently acquired it... and have played with it, and it can be fun to get a certain effect on some vocals, but I wouldn't want to use it past that... like to fix a pretty bad vocal. I don't know, I just feel like it's cheating. If you can't sing it like that live, you shouldn't be singing it on a record and trying to pass it off. Like Hillary Duff.

What do you guys do? Do you always use it? Use it occasionally? Never? I can understand if you sa, it's a great performance but one note was off... but I mean, using it on a whole track... that's ridiculous.
 
my philosophy has always been , you are what you are.
the way god made you. you do your best with a song, then write another.
for me its a healthy approach.
i just present myself with no faking. i'm not the greatest vocallist but not the worst. i dont use autotune. the extreme of my faking is if i sing a really bade note, i'll redo that one phrase and cut it in once i get it right.
anyway i write songs for the fun and pleasure out of it.
and hope other people get some fun out of them as well.
if you want a sampling for a laugh try some of my comical songs
soundclick.com/bmanning
"limeyrap", "i'm too old to rock and roll"...then some heavy rock "the wrecker".
wrecker went #1 in rock section a year odd ago. which was nice.
lighter fare ..."the whole of london town is crying".
i like to use different types of voices as you can see on these songs which ive had a lot of plays from users.
i think the whole goal is to have fun doing it.
 
grn said:
If you can't sing it like that live, you shouldn't be singing it on a record and trying to pass it off. Like Hillary Duff.

But she's so cute :p
 
I am even more extreme. I don't even like to cut together two takes unless absolutely necessary.

Dave
 
The truth of the matter is that you have to be very close in order to fix it convincingly. The performance has to still be there, the tone and timing and execution of the note still has to be right. The feel still has to be right. The only thing this can fix is intonation, and it can only do this convincingly if the main line is within a half a semitone of the right note. Any farther than that, and it is obvious.
It is a time saving tool.
 
i am even more extreme.

i don't use reverb, or chorus, or delay, or compression, or EQ because its cheating.

.... come one man. who cares how you got the song from your mind to your ears. just get the sound.
 
crosstudio said:
i am even more extreme.

i don't use reverb, or chorus, or delay, or compression, or EQ because its cheating.

.... come one man. who cares how you got the song from your mind to your ears. just get the sound.


I tend to agree. In the studio all's fair. You are making a recording to make a particular point, how you achieve it is not the issue IMO.

Where do you draw the line? It's possible to argue that using compression is cheeting, because it makes a vocalist sound better than they otherwise would do?

No, studio is one thing. But when it comes to 'live' shows that's an entirely different issue. An audience has a right to expect that the music they hear is being created in real time by the musicians present on stage, not created previously and mimed to on stage.

Of course it all gets a bit blurred whne you get to genres like Rap and hip hop, but that music is about the performance of the rapper which is live of course and noone is being fooled, it is honest (assuming the rapper is NOT miming!). Honesty about what is going on is the key here, just be straight with people, no deceptions and all is cool.
 
I don't really care. Pop music is all about giving the youth something nice and dreamy to look at and listen too. You won't hear anyone who knows what they're talking about say that a Hillary Duff is a good singer. A good/great performer, probably. A very succesfull entertainer, totally. A good musician/singer, no. But that's not the point either. It's not really about Hillary Duff, it's about the feeling/idea/message of fun, happiness and dreaminess that counts in pop music, not the musical value.
 
Halion said:
. . . it's about the feeling/idea/message of fun, happiness and dreaminess that counts in pop music, not the musical value.

You mean it's not about the boobs anymore?
 
grn said:
but I mean, using it on a whole track... that's ridiculous.
I agree -- many pros DON'T use it that way... it's the novices and rookies that do.

It's generally considered a tool for rescuing a mostly good track, especially if it's impractical to get the vocalist back to re-cut a line.

As for the "cheating" bit -- most guitarists can't play two guitar parts at the same time, so why isn't overdubbing "cheating" too? Or background vocals done by the lead singer?? etc........
 
it's not cheating because they are still doing it themselves, and the bulk of the performance is from them, not from a computer.
 
I would like to have pitch correct, but only for time saving. I mean my vocalist can do a new song in one take and it sounds really good, but there is maybe one or two notes that are a tiny tiny bit out. Using pitch correct would be advantageous as he could be in and out of the studio pretty quick. And time is precious in the studio.

Compression cheating? More like a vocal distorter (enhancer) would be classed as cheating, but when mixing an album you are wanting the best possible sound so that your album sells anyway. Obviously!
 
If I could just get that new boob-tune/enhancer plug to work, I'd be money. It just comes across as so "un-natural" when I've tried it.
 
it made my voice sound like a chipmunk when a local producer used it on me... i couldnt sing that hi pitched even if i wanted to and it sounds horrible.
 
i have to admit that in a professional world, i need to try and give the artist the best recording they can have. Even if that means cheating when they have no idea what they are doing. They have to leave the studio happy. Thats only in extreme cases though.

Most of the time clients are serious enough to not have to do that, unless they are running out of time and cant fix it themselves.

Danny
 
Part of recording was at one time... capturing an artist at their best. Capturing a brilliant, awe inspiring moment that gave you chills.

Autotune takes that away because its all cut and paste mediocre crap together on a grid.

Turning the untalented into marketable hogwash.

I wonder how many of the current top40 people would be able to make a record with 3 tracks and no "overdubs"


SoMm
 
Hi All,

If you wish to look at it politically (why not, it's election time):
WW1 is long over; WW2 is still reporting a fair amount of regonal fighting, and some areas are still fully in the hands of powerful groups that show great endurance and organization.
No.1 was from 78 to tape; no.2 was is from analog tape to harddrive....but I digress.

These are the things that determine how you will record someones's session:

1. Is it a favor/is it paid?
1a. Do you have the time/how badly do you need the money?

2. If it is paid, who is the recording aimed at: just the performer, the performer and family, or as a demo (which you have discussed already with performer, and, if need be, family, if they are paying.)

3. If this is beyond a simple demo, you already will have a written agreement (right?) of some sort about the estimated time/budget, and what is included in terms of editing/polishing/tarting it up if need be. Also who the heck has the rights and clearances if this thing gets picked up for 'development' (yeah right) by The Majors.

4.THE BIG ONE: how much of your sense of quality/arranging/engineering/ears/compassion/SENSE OF ARTISTIC INSPIRATION are you willing/daring enough/reckless enough to let interfere with the paycheck and your sense of well-being that steps 1 through 3 so far have set up?

I do wish there was a computer simulation that one could use to parse that particular problem, one of those clever things with simulated outcomes and such, but I am afraid it wouldn't do much good.
Because we have feelings. Feelings that change. So the rules of war are set, until someone utters: "That doesn't sound like what I wanted." Cue flushing toilet.

Now the diplomacy begins anew, and it's really just the same as the original recording/mixing diplomacy, except with bigger weapons. You are now on the defense, and the client/friend/thing in front of the mic has the Weapon of Mass Destruction known as the Missing Check.

Because you have recorded. You have edited. You have added. All of this with the conviction that, since they like the idea of 'filling in the song' with more instruments...hours have passed, days. Of first putting good takes together for the lead, easy. Then orchestrating, to be big about it, to flesh it into the demo they were indicating they wanted. Then playing/mixing the parts. Time goes on.

Telephone Response From Artist who is Young Hopeful paid by Parents: Hi, this is ....... got the disc, thanks so much for helping out (this being the accompaniment); I think there are too many instruments; can you just send the vocal and (artist performed) guitar? Why of course. Now I have to check if the breath edits will work solo with just reverb, if her strummed guitar is in time enough to leave in the mix....And, ladies and germs, I CAN'T CHARGE FOR ALL THE HOURS SPENT.

The above is real, just for anyone who thought I was just being a self-righteous blowhard about the rules. I had this session occur within the past month, and I went the conscious producer route: if the client doesn't know and says they want 'more', bring them to a better place though your instincts.

My instincts gave me a nice cd mix of her doing her own composition with my orchestration that, to be frank, I like, but it also gave me, in addition to all the orchestration, the unpaid job of remastering and looking at re-eqing work to give her two tracks of her and guitar. So there. Recording 101, in a certain sense of the word.

Please, someone, post and tell me I am not unique :-)

Best,

CC
 
you are not unique, you are not a special snowflake. you are the same decaying organic matter as everyone else. you are the all singing, all dancing, crap of the earth.
 
"Telephone Response From Artist who is Young Hopeful paid by Parents: Hi, this is ....... got the disc, thanks so much for helping out (this being the accompaniment); I think there are too many instruments; can you just send the vocal and (artist performed) guitar? Why of course. Now I have to check if the breath edits will work solo with just reverb, if her strummed guitar is in time enough to leave in the mix....And, ladies and germs, I CAN'T CHARGE FOR ALL THE HOURS SPENT."

Surely things like this should be all agreed up front, that you will a) be spending a long time putting orchestration on this girl's music, is that OK or not? b) if it is required then it will have to be paid for, otherwise you don't bother and just record her straight, right?

I guess I'm saying this type of situation can be avoided if all the parties to the deal agree what's gonna happen up front? If you weren't ASKED to put lots of orchestration on the songs then you can't really comlain if the customer doesn't want it? If you WERE asked, then they should pay you, even if they changed their minds afterwards?

or am I missing something?
 
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