does my AT 4050 sound like it should?

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powpowmeow

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My audio technica AT 4050 -

i got this thing a few months ago. got in on ebay BUT from a music store not some random person, and although the box was not sealed in plastic (not sure if it comes that way brand new) all the indications were that this mic was brand new or very close to brand new.

was just recording some vocals tonight and noticed that it sounded kind of crappy. like, too midrangy, too compressed or something. i figured i would come here and post a short clip of my vocals on the mic, since i know a million of you guys have this mic and use it all the time.

i have uploaded a short wav file of me singing, obviously im not looking for a critique of my voice, but thanks to all who have helped me in the past here, and who continue to do so

http://www.yousendit.com/download/WnBRbGtBYTJlM1IzZUE9PQ

please post and let me know if the download link becomes invalid, or something of that nature... thanks
 
I can't tell. Sounds clean enough. Low cut off, directly on axis? maybe try back just a bit to thin out the low mid.
 
mixsit said:
I can't tell. Sounds clean enough. Low cut off, directly on axis? maybe try back just a bit to thin out the low mid.
Click to expand...

yeah i am using the low cut off when i do vocals, using a p filter, probably was about 4 inches from the mic when i recorded the wav. the p filter is about an inch from the mic. and my mouth is about 3-4 inches behind that. i try and aim my voice at the mic itself (the little round bit in the mic casing) instead of above or below that..

i was even closer to the mic than that, but the mic was breaking up a little when i did the louder vocal stuff

not really sure how i can make sure the mic is on axis other than what i am doing now, which is to try and make the mic as straight up and down as possible, and try and sing straight on to the front of the mic

thanks for checking that out man good to know i dont have a damaged mic
 
Hmm. I don't have that mic so I'm just winging it here. Guess I was thinking if the low cut was on it might help with the mid balance if it was off? On axis' was just wondering if the mic should have more top than it does in you clip.
?
Also- check out the other patterns. If you believe their spec card' looks to be the flattest of the bunch. fig-8 has more top lift (?) and will likely give more weight up close, omni just the opposite etc..
 
the odds of buying one from a store and getting a bad one are pretty slim... if you really suspect that it's roached... find a local store that carries them and tell them you're thinking of buying another and was wondering if you check it against the store's open boxed to see if it was likely to "match" well... then when you need something... buy local...
 
dementedchord said:
the odds of buying one from a store and getting a bad one are pretty slim... if you really suspect that it's roached... find a local store that carries them and tell them you're thinking of buying another and was wondering if you check it against the store's open boxed to see if it was likely to "match" well... then when you need something... buy local...
Click to expand...

if i didnt live in the boondocks snow capital of northern michigan i would buy local.... its not an option foir me to buy anything locally, other than guitar strings... even then i am paying a premium price
 
just asking the obvious -- you're sure you singing into the right side? If it's in cardioid mode, it would be the side with the AT logo, I'm pretty sure.

I'm only asking because I have a 4040, and I did sing into the wrong side :o
 
antichef said:
just asking the obvious -- you're sure you singing into the right side? If it's in cardioid mode, it would be the side with the AT logo, I'm pretty sure.

I'm only asking because I have a 4040, and I did sing into the wrong side :o
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yep, im singing into the side with the logo and the 3 way pattern selector switch on it..
 
What I recall of my 4033a, the logo was on front and was the side that you sing to. The pad and cut off switches were on the BACK. Sort of off to the sides really, but definitely not on the Front. You could try several takes and rotate the mic 90 degrees each, to see which you like better.

You could also experiment with polar patterns and distance from the mic. Omni tends to have a distance roll off. The further sound sources get an unnatural balance relative to the closer sources. Cardioid tends to have a bass roll off depending on distance from mic. The closer you are, the more low frequency in the sound. Back off 6"'s and a very different balance.

LDC's tend to have an odd color to them and a less than flat frequency response chart. My 4033a was odd in that Bass sounded killer, Baritone / tenor II sounded dull, tenor I / Alto sounded great, Soprano was just okay. The 4050 is supposed to be more neutral, not to imply neutral. I tend to stick with SDCs for their flatter frequency response curve (what you hear is what you get). Although I long for most of the detail that LDCs seem to excel at.

It could also be that your preamp is providing significantly less that 48V phantom power and that's coloring your sound. My 4033a sounded nothing like the sample on gearwire.com through my Mobile Pre. I sold it to fund my Korg MR-1000 so I don't know how it'd sound on it. But there was a noticeable difference between mobile pre and DMP3 to a Delta 44. And the Korg gets a completely different sound from my BX8's than my Delta 44, even with the same source WAV file. I've only downloaded the first 30 seconds of that clip. Your gain level is pretty low (< 50%), once normalized, it sounds pretty normal from what I've heard of AT40xx samples. Up the gain and back off from the mic when going loud (manual compression).
 
Shadow_7 said:
What I recall of my 4033a, the logo was on front and was the side that you sing to. The pad and cut off switches were on the BACK. Sort of off to the sides really, but definitely not on the Front. You could try several takes and rotate the mic 90 degrees each, to see which you like better.

You could also experiment with polar patterns and distance from the mic. Omni tends to have a distance roll off. The further sound sources get an unnatural balance relative to the closer sources. Cardioid tends to have a bass roll off depending on distance from mic. The closer you are, the more low frequency in the sound. Back off 6"'s and a very different balance.

LDC's tend to have an odd color to them and a less than flat frequency response chart. My 4033a was odd in that Bass sounded killer, Baritone / tenor II sounded dull, tenor I / Alto sounded great, Soprano was just okay. The 4050 is supposed to be more neutral, not to imply neutral. I tend to stick with SDCs for their flatter frequency response curve (what you hear is what you get). Although I long for most of the detail that LDCs seem to excel at.

It could also be that your preamp is providing significantly less that 48V phantom power and that's coloring your sound. My 4033a sounded nothing like the sample on gearwire.com through my Mobile Pre. I sold it to fund my Korg MR-1000 so I don't know how it'd sound on it. But there was a noticeable difference between mobile pre and DMP3 to a Delta 44. And the Korg gets a completely different sound from my BX8's than my Delta 44, even with the same source WAV file. I've only downloaded the first 30 seconds of that clip. Your gain level is pretty low (< 50%), once normalized, it sounds pretty normal from what I've heard of AT40xx samples. Up the gain and back off from the mic when going loud (manual compression).
Click to expand...

good stuff. this post reminds me that i should have listed that the preamp i am using is an audiobuddy. that is the only thing in the signal path, no other processing.

you also bring up another question for me, what db level should i be recording my inputs at? i record at 96khz 24 bit, i usually try to get the input gain on the tracks im recording right in the middle of the meter, sorry i cant be more scientific than that, but at some point i picked up the impression that it's not good to have your input levels real high, like close to the "red" range...

thanks!
 
You want your gain such that your highest pieaks are just shy of maxed. Less 10 or 20 percent for any gig, since hype / adrenaline kicks in and the performance is generally louder than the sound check. Mics plus preamps have a noise floor. The lower your gain, the higher this noise floor when you amp things up to an audible level. You basically want to record as loud as you possibly can without cresting or reaching that max point. In order to lessen this noise floor. Not really that big of a deal on a mono or stereo recording. But when you mix 40+ tracks, every little bit of noise is cumulative. That's part of the reason why a lot of the old stuff sounds like it was recorded live from the base of Niagara Falls. That and tape plus age of course.
 
powpowmeow said:
good stuff. this post reminds me that i should have listed that the preamp i am using is an audiobuddy. that is the only thing in the signal path, no other processing.

you also bring up another question for me, what db level should i be recording my inputs at? i record at 96khz 24 bit, i usually try to get the input gain on the tracks im recording right in the middle of the meter, sorry i cant be more scientific than that, but at some point i picked up the impression that it's not good to have your input levels real high, like close to the "red" range...

thanks!
Click to expand...

Does your preamp provide a full 48 volts? If not your mic is running out of breath due to low power.
 
I don't know if this will help any but i thought i would post these clips since i was working on this project. it's a quick vocal clip from a song by a band that i work with. the first clip is the solo vocal track as recorded. the chain was 4050 > ART MPA Gold > dbx163x > DIGI003r. lowend all the way. the 163 was only kissing the signal here and there at about 2db. i think i would probably just leave it out in the future but i had just gotten it in and wanted to try it out.

the second clip adds in the rest of the mix which includes a doubled vocal on the chorus mixed low

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=434437&content=songinfo&songID=7295531

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=434437&content=songinfo&songID=7295533
 
powpowmeow said:
I'll go as much as $500 on one.
Click to expand...

that leaves you open to pretty much all of the standard lowend stars.

DMP3
RNP
ART MPA Gold w/tube swap

those three are the most common suggestions for under 500 although there are other options worth considering. you could definitly get a presonus MP20 for way less than that also.
 
Have you done other things with that setup to show it's actually lacking or that is really the issue?
 
mixsit said:
Have you done other things with that setup to show it's actually lacking or that is really the issue?
Click to expand...

i was wondering that too, because when i listened to the clip on my monitors it sounded ok. that is that it sounded like any other home recording done the way we all do...with a less than ideal preamp in a less than ideal room into less than ideal converters etc etc.

while i support the idea of replacing the audio buddy especially if it's not giving you full phantom power, i also suggest that you keep going and try to get the best that you can out of it.
 
Well it's not too hard to do the math.

USB bus powered, so 5V != 48V (5V)
4x AA battery powered, so 4x1.5V != 48V (6V)
8x AA battery powered, so 8x1.5V != 48V (12V)
2x 9V battery powered, so 2x9V != 48V (18V)

Not that it matters for some phantom powered mics that are happy with anything above a certain amount. And those estimates might differ based on internal circuitry. But for some not having the full monty colors the sound you get from the mic. And for others not having the full 48V, makes the mics unusable, for all intents and purposes. The ATs seem content with sufficient power. Although probably do perform better at specifications.

As far as gain, you want as much of it that you can get without adversely affecting the sound. But you don't want to ever get to that point where the sound is adversely affected. It might be a desired effect in some circumstances, but it's one of those things that can't be undone in post. So playing it safe is a good thng, but 50% might be a bit too safe. Baring screaming fans, slamming doors or other spikes during your tracking.

As far as exterenal / independent preamps, DMP3 (best value out there IMO). The difference between this < $200 preamp and some $2,000 preamps is minor. At least for those just getting into this recording thing. For the audio buddy, you might notice a significant difference even with the ultra cheap Art Tube MP. Although I'm not a fan of that one myself. It imparts a noticeable color to a mic that has an established characteristic. Also the ART MPA with tube upgrade / swap. And others in that < $500 classification.
 
I know many have experienced the same thing as I have, but one of my Audio Buddy preamps only puts out 33V :eek:

Fine for most situations, but yours may not be one of them.

You could always borrow a mixer with 48V or rent something to A/B it.

Pete
 
Shadow_7 said:
You want your gain such that your highest pieaks are just shy of maxed.........You basically want to record as loud as you possibly can without cresting or reaching that max point. In order to lessen this noise floor.
Click to expand...

Probably true IF a guy is using a tape recorder..... but with digital gear this is usually not the best way to go..... besides, he said if he gets any closer to the mic then his voice distorts, which tells me that something in the chain is already way too hot. The end result is better, me thinks, if the inputs are run at -20, with instantaneous transient peaks at -14 or so but never higher than -10. Then crank the monitor for recording.

I would think if noise floor is a problem after recording this way, then a guy should be getting a better preamp, not cranking the input signal. Works thatr way for me on my gear, anyway. Sounds to me like he definitely has the mic turned the right way, logo and pattern switch to the front, rolloff and pad in the back.
 
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