kristian
New member
say you have a 24/48 file. should you take it to 24/44 then 16/44 first or to 16/48 then to 16/44?
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pglewis
New member
Did you find a good sample rate converter? If so, what ya usin'?
I think it would be best to keep the bit depth at 24 until the very end, but I'm just going on intuition and not fact. Try it both ways and A/B it. See if you can tell 'em apart.
I think it would be best to keep the bit depth at 24 until the very end, but I'm just going on intuition and not fact. Try it both ways and A/B it. See if you can tell 'em apart.
J
JC Lives
New member
My thought would be to go directly to 16/44. In this way your not doing all those extra steps. I would take to approach that the shortest signal path is the best option.
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pglewis
New member
The extra steps are going on even if you have a tool or plug-in that does both with one menu selection. Dither and downsampling are two different processes and both have to happen whether two tools are used or just one.
kristian
New member
ive been a real retard.
i hvae soundforge, so i first took my file in vegas and rendered as 24/48 stereo file. then i took that and made it 16 bit. Im not sure but i would belive allowing the original render at 24 bit to have more headroom. then i took the 16/48 and opened it in soundforge and used their downsample to 44. now i have a cd ready wav. it sound 1000% better then the SB Crap! stuff i used to use.
i hvae soundforge, so i first took my file in vegas and rendered as 24/48 stereo file. then i took that and made it 16 bit. Im not sure but i would belive allowing the original render at 24 bit to have more headroom. then i took the 16/48 and opened it in soundforge and used their downsample to 44. now i have a cd ready wav. it sound 1000% better then the SB Crap! stuff i used to use.
J
James HE
a spoonfull weighs a ton
With most editors you can do both at the same time. This is usually the best way to go. You want more bits when you resample and you want more samples when you dither. You can't have it both ways. So there (theroretically) is some benefit to using an algorhythm that beforms both at the same time. I could be wrong though, but I don't see one as being any less critical than the other. I may be a differnt story if you were going 96 to 48 or 88.2 to 44.1, resampling to those depths is a no brainer for most resampling programs, with hardly no artifacts Then I suppose that could be either before or after. I think I may be making sense. Really, I'm talking out of my ass though....
-jhe
-jhe
sonusman
Banned
Resample first. Dither next. Save As 16 bit file last....easy enough.
Don't dither then resample. Not good at all. The resampling cause changes to the bit depth. It IS DSP, and thus need redithering.
Ed
Don't dither then resample. Not good at all. The resampling cause changes to the bit depth. It IS DSP, and thus need redithering.
Ed
kristian
New member
bonza! shame i cant do it 
... i have soundforge 4.5 and it only takes 16 bit files, so i resampled second. i dont know where in vegas to resample. i will overcome!!!
of course i could just buy SF5.0.... on second thought.. nah. i will overcome somehow!
... i have soundforge 4.5 and it only takes 16 bit files, so i resampled second. i dont know where in vegas to resample. i will overcome!!! of course i could just buy SF5.0.... on second thought.. nah. i will overcome somehow!
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James HE
a spoonfull weighs a ton
you can resample in Vegas. I think it is as simple as "mixing to new track" with a different bit depth.
Ed, is it "wrong" to resample and convert to 16bit at the same time with a program like Wavelab?
-jhe
Ed, is it "wrong" to resample and convert to 16bit at the same time with a program like Wavelab?
-jhe
sonusman
Banned
James HE said:
No, as long as the dithering takes place AFTER the resampling. I have been using the Waves L1 Ultramaximizer dithering scheme instead of the Wavelab scheme, and the L1 is last in line anyway, as it should be in any mastering process.
Anyway, if you do use the Wavelab dithering scheme, it will be after the resampling, so you are okay.
By the way, although very subtle, the L1's dithering scheme seems to have a richer sound then Wavelab's does.
Also, when you apply dithering, you are not actually reducing the bit depth yet....You are just adding dithering noise at the end bit depth you are going to. So, while you may dither a 24 bit file with a 16 bit dithering, you still wind up with a relatively "noisey" 24 bit file. You then hopefully have a smart Save As function in your editor that will allow you to pick a new bit depth (Wavelab does this if you pick the Convert in Save As.
You could also just apply the dithering, keep the file at 24 bits and open it in ANY editor that will allow you to reduce the bit depth in Save As. Even Goldwave will do this. Basically, you are just truncating the file, but since you already added noise at -93dB ((I believe that is the level dithering is added because dithering makes you lose 3dB of sound to noise ratio) you will not per se be losing anything. Just noise that is below the 16 bit converters s/n ratio.
Anyway, there you go.
Ed
Ed
T
tdukex
Man of the Muse
Ed,
You're back.
Right on!
You're back.
Right on!
kristian
New member
james he- when rendering to a file you can change the sample rate in vegas but it sounds like ASS. i tried a test, i took my original .veg file at 24/48 and did 4 things. I rendered at different bits/samples first was 24/48, obviously this sounded just as good as what i was listening to while mixing. Then i did 16/44 and this was HORRIBLE, it sounded worse then when i used a SB Crap! to mix down from reel to reel. Then i thought, hmmm...maybe its the dither that is not up to par. So i rendered a 24/44 file, and to my surprise it sounded JUST as crappy as the 16/44, really really poor sound.
In the end i rendered as 16/48 in vegas and then in soundforge i resampled, but i now i learned that i have to either get SF5.0 or get a resampling plugin, so far the latter has proved difficult, and the former a bit of a waste of money currently.
In the end i rendered as 16/48 in vegas and then in soundforge i resampled, but i now i learned that i have to either get SF5.0 or get a resampling plugin, so far the latter has proved difficult, and the former a bit of a waste of money currently.
J
James HE
a spoonfull weighs a ton
kristian, given yoursetup, you should do everthing at 44.1. 24/44.1 sounds plenty good. The ass comes in when you resample. 
This, of course, dosen't help you with what you arlready have recorded! When I have "resampled" with Vegas it was from 96k to 48k, which I guess is why I didn't exactly have the same experience as you did.
Ed, I use the dither in the L1. I have been doing it wrong it seems. cause I'll apply the effects, (L1 last in the chain) then save it at 16/44.1 (so resampling is last, I just haden't really thought about it beore). I haven't done any real mastering, just getting stuff down to CD (so no real harm
). I'll keep what you've said in mind for next time. Just to be sure I've got this in my head right, I would be better off not dithering when I apply my effects, then resampling the file, then apply the dither, then save as 16. Ahh... that makes sense! Thanks Ed!
-jhe
This, of course, dosen't help you with what you arlready have recorded! When I have "resampled" with Vegas it was from 96k to 48k, which I guess is why I didn't exactly have the same experience as you did.Ed, I use the dither in the L1. I have been doing it wrong it seems. cause I'll apply the effects, (L1 last in the chain) then save it at 16/44.1 (so resampling is last, I just haden't really thought about it beore). I haven't done any real mastering, just getting stuff down to CD (so no real harm
). I'll keep what you've said in mind for next time. Just to be sure I've got this in my head right, I would be better off not dithering when I apply my effects, then resampling the file, then apply the dither, then save as 16. Ahh... that makes sense! Thanks Ed!-jhe