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Ben Linus
New member
no.just likes.and followers.money cant be the motor
BroKen_H
Re-member
Greg, I know what you mean about musicians being easily hurt. Band I was in in Denver in the 80's was approached by a rep from Web Records in NY. They offered a one year, one album contract, no front. We'd never heard of Web Records and didn't like the minimalistic contract, so we turned 'em down. Kept bar gigging and party playing, making decent money, but not a "living." Then a guy and gal showed up at a party we were playing for a friend.. They were each wearing about $1200 in clothes and had "the professional look". Turned out that the rep from Web thought we were good enough to pass on to a rep from Warner Bros.
They came, told us they thought we would be great if we slowed down a coupla things and made our vocals more understandable. Offered 3 yr/ 3 album deal with $250lk signing bonus if we could come up with 2 more peak level songs in a month. Everything sounded good and right to me, but all the guitarists (major songwriters) could think about was the "censorship" of their creativity. They weren't trying to churn out anything. The drummer kept saying "We're not ready for this." After the month passed and we hadn't come up with anything new, the deal fell off, I told them when Warner Bros offers you a three album contract and a quarter of a mil you're ready and if you think telling you how to make your music sound better is censorship, there was no reason for me to stay. I quit the band and went back to the one I'd been in in the Air Force, the drummer got pegged for counterfeitting, and one of the guitarists put his guitar under his bed and, to my knowledge, has never played again.
Musicians have so many quirks that I sometimes am glad to be soloing now. I still don't make a living, but the people at my church still love to hear my voice and my playing (guitar, bass, piano, drums). Of course, no one in a good church is going to tell you otherwise...
They came, told us they thought we would be great if we slowed down a coupla things and made our vocals more understandable. Offered 3 yr/ 3 album deal with $250lk signing bonus if we could come up with 2 more peak level songs in a month. Everything sounded good and right to me, but all the guitarists (major songwriters) could think about was the "censorship" of their creativity. They weren't trying to churn out anything. The drummer kept saying "We're not ready for this." After the month passed and we hadn't come up with anything new, the deal fell off, I told them when Warner Bros offers you a three album contract and a quarter of a mil you're ready and if you think telling you how to make your music sound better is censorship, there was no reason for me to stay. I quit the band and went back to the one I'd been in in the Air Force, the drummer got pegged for counterfeitting, and one of the guitarists put his guitar under his bed and, to my knowledge, has never played again.
Musicians have so many quirks that I sometimes am glad to be soloing now. I still don't make a living, but the people at my church still love to hear my voice and my playing (guitar, bass, piano, drums). Of course, no one in a good church is going to tell you otherwise...
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Greg_L
Banned
Kudos to your bandmates for standing their ground. Probably a dumb financial decision, but I can respect it.
CrowsofFritz
Flamingo!
I respect it too. But man, if I had that decision, I would be a sheep and Warner would be my shepherd.
Really, it's things like this that make me glad that I'm solo as well. I have no control over what other members think! If only I had a mind control machine....... MUAHA
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Greg_L
Banned
I respect it too. But man, if I had that decision, I would be a sheep and Warner would be my shepherd.
Really, it's things like this that make me glad that I'm solo as well. I have no control over what other members think! If only I had a mind control machine....... MUAHA
Keep in mind that you usually had to pay back those advances, or use it to buy better equipment and studio time. Those record deal advances didn't mean you go buy a Ferrari and a house in Beverly Hills. That stuff came way later provided you sold enough records to pay back your advance and made enough royalties and live performance paychecks to buy that stuff.
Chili
Site Moderator
Yeah, back then those contract advances would put you in the poor house. I read the book Confessions of a Record Producer by Moses Avalon and it was a real eye opener. Unless you had two hit albums you probably would still be paying off the advance from the record company. I wonder if it's different today.
And if Warner Bros sends two people to offer you a contract, then you're ready!! They wouldn't waste the money if you weren't. Must have been a great feeling at the time.
And if Warner Bros sends two people to offer you a contract, then you're ready!! They wouldn't waste the money if you weren't. Must have been a great feeling at the time.
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Greg_L
Banned
It's different now because many contracts don't even come with advances anymore and big mega companies like Warner Bros and Sony don't mess with little bands anymore. They manufacture their own. The band still foots the bill for everything and the record company just tells them what to play, how to play it, where to play it, and maybe they'll do something with you after they've completely changed you around. It's a total joke. In this musical landscape I think a band that really wants to try their luck at stardom would be better off learning how to home record, making all of their own decisions, and just look for a publishing or distribution deal. Forget record companies.
I remember Green Day was all over the radio, MTV, had two successful albums out, and they were still having to live on 5 bucks a day and sleeping in their tour van.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
Lots of bands have clung to their "creativity"...when in fact there was nothing there but noise.
OK, maybe they were really fond of their special noise, but you have to be a little realistic even when dealing with artsy-fartsy views....if you are looking for some kind of commercial break-out situation.
The smart thing would have been to give them their two more songs and clean up a couple others...get the deal, then work the situation. I mean...in the end, they could still walk away at any time and go back to being nobodies.
Selling out is not the same thing as playing it a little smart...and I don't think your band-mates played it smart.
More likely than not...it was probably the fear of "making it" and not the "censorship" that scared them off. I mean, when the big money and big opportunities just show up at your door unexpectedly, it can be a little intimidating....it's happened to a lot of bands over the years.
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Pakala
Retired....NOT!
I can ID with that. Musicians are artists and I'd say more oftenthan not don't have the best heads for business or even common sense. When opportunity knocks, wrench that door open and embrace it.
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Pakala
Retired....NOT!
I disgree...
Greg, I have to disagree. The breaks in music are few and far between, if they ever come at all. Getting the chance to make a mark nationally, even if the label "helps" you refine or commercialize it, it is a first step to creative freedom. If you've got what it takes artistically, getting on the map, so to speak, with a major label is a stepping stone to creative independence and financial stability. It also enables the real artists in the band to dump the naysayers/hangers-on, reconfigure and make even better music....and money. If you just want to practice your art and control everything in your musical life, that's easy. Just stay in your town and play a small clubs. But if you want to make a living and leave a legacy you can ultimately be proud of, then you have to realize that making a living is a function of turning your art into a business and to succeed in business you have to be able to make good business decisions. I've worked with talented but loser musicians and all they do is bring you down and ensure failure. Too bad Broken_H didn't reorganize and keep plugging away. Perseverance is one of the keys to success.
Greg, I have to disagree. The breaks in music are few and far between, if they ever come at all. Getting the chance to make a mark nationally, even if the label "helps" you refine or commercialize it, it is a first step to creative freedom. If you've got what it takes artistically, getting on the map, so to speak, with a major label is a stepping stone to creative independence and financial stability. It also enables the real artists in the band to dump the naysayers/hangers-on, reconfigure and make even better music....and money. If you just want to practice your art and control everything in your musical life, that's easy. Just stay in your town and play a small clubs. But if you want to make a living and leave a legacy you can ultimately be proud of, then you have to realize that making a living is a function of turning your art into a business and to succeed in business you have to be able to make good business decisions. I've worked with talented but loser musicians and all they do is bring you down and ensure failure. Too bad Broken_H didn't reorganize and keep plugging away. Perseverance is one of the keys to success.
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Greg_L
Banned
I disagree with your disagreement. That's a naively utopian and idealistic view, and it's really, really, dated. That might have been the case in 1982, but it just isn't so anymore.
SloppyJo
New member
I think Greg certainly has a point; it's a great time to be an independent musician. You have the potential to reach millions of fans thanks to the internet, recording and production gear is comparatively dirt cheap to what it was in the "good ol' days".
Now when I say that it's a great time to be an independent musician, I don't necessarily mean you can make a living out solely music. You can find success in music while having a day job, and the benefit of a DIY approach is that you get a greater return as far as money in concerned. You don't have to aim for a rock star sized audience. In other words, you can make more money selling albums by yourself to smaller audience then you would by selling albums via a label to an exponentially larger audience.
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jonny deep
Disappointing Member
Well, I disagree with your disagreement of the disagreement, actually, Greg, for reasons unknown to us all.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
Absolutely.
Some musicians who couldn't get the breaks or take advantage of them, end up spending the rest of their lives pissed at the "record biz" and/or claiming something about "artistic integrity"...meanwhile they're just playin' basic 3-chord R&R and not doing anything artistically cutting edge that they really needed to cling to in order to avoid "selling out".
Who's really doing cutting edge art anyway?
Most of it has been done before in one form or another...so if you are offered the opportunity that asks for a little polish to be applied...is that going to really ruin your "art"...?
Like you said...get the deal, and then use it to YOUR advantage as best as you can. If it doesn't appeal to you after you walk through those doors....you can always turn around and walk out and go back to your small-town "fame"....and obscurity.
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Greg_L
Banned
Lol........
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
That all sounds nice....but getting back to the title of this thread...."Does anyone here make serious money from their music"?
You may THINK you are reaching "millions" when you just post something on the Interwebs...but you're not.
No....being an independent musician and having some kind of public and/or monetary success these days is actually pretty slim.
Sure, it's easier to make music and post it out there these days at the home level...but that amounts to the same thing as tossing your own grain of sand out onto the beach.
It's actually harder these days to get the more serious breaks...so yeah, when they come knocking, you go ahead and be coy-n-fickle, clinging to your garage/basement/bedroom "art"...but then don't be pissed 30 years later if it never comes knocking again.
I'm pretty confident that regardless what some people say about not wanting to lower their artistic integrity and what have you....most would shit themselves if a major record company knocked on their door wanting to promote and sell their music.
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kevin6string
New member
Every major label artist, before they make a dime is busy touring , selling paraphenalia etc. to pay back the front money the label gave them to sustain an album project...some records sell some don't and some major artists are in hock for years to management before they actually own anything...after the artist breaks even on the cost of the album then and only then do they start to make anything on anymore sales...that is the hard core facts of wanting to be a star...it is only serious money if you are happy doing what you are doing!!! i would say most artists make their money on endorsed products with their names attached i.e. clothing apparel vested in at the local mall than they made on an album
SloppyJo
New member
I haven't read through this thread thoroughly, but has anyone actually defined what "serious money" is?
And to clarify... I should've said the internet has the potential to reach millions of people. You just have to know how tu use it!
And to clarify... I should've said the internet has the potential to reach millions of people. You just have to know how tu use it!
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
True...and that's the lifestyle they were after. It still beats just "selling beers" at the local bar.
If they didn't care about the money in the first place, if it really WAS just about their "art"...well then at least they got to do the bigger tours and play in front of thousands instead a bar-packed crowd...and they got their music recorded professionally and into many more hands than if they just stayed home and posted stuff on YT or wherever.
I'm not saying some people wouldn't rather just stay home and play for themselves. That's cool, if that's all you are after....but if you want bigger success, then you can't expect it will come 100% on your terms at the start.
I'll be happy playing-n-recording in my studio for 30 more years hopefully...but that doesn't mean I'm not still interested in selling some music if the opportunity came along. That's the one thing musicians past the age of 30 can still do to possibly get some success....write some songs that might sell, and then peddle them where you can.
Until any deal comes....you can still plug in your guitar, turn down the lights, and play away...and be a star in your own bedroom or the local bar, even after you put on a few pounds and started turning gray or bald...
...just avoid the spandex and leather pants.
I don't think anyone put up a "number"...but I would say it's more than what you would be making doing your basic day-jobs...or what most bar/club bands make playing.
See, that's where it's funny....when people who play out in small clubs and are basically *selling* their music....get concerned about doing the same thing on major label scale. You're playing for money, right...so if the opportunity comes to do it for MORE money...are you sure you would turn it down if they asked you to polish it up a bit?
Lt. Bob
Spread the Daf!
or you can do what I do which is love playing music and not getting all serious about what I play exactly.
For me it's the doing of it and the creative process that takes place AS I'm improvising a solo or whatever.
I enjoy playing music and really think those guys that can only like playing a certain genre or certain songs are missing out .... but different strokes as they say.
For me it's the doing of it and the creative process that takes place AS I'm improvising a solo or whatever.
I enjoy playing music and really think those guys that can only like playing a certain genre or certain songs are missing out .... but different strokes as they say.