G
Greg_L
Banned
The people of the country of Georgia make the people of the state of Georgia look like a Mensa convention.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
This project concept has as much potential as that guy's in the Guitar forum, who was making guitar cabs out of drum shells (can't remember what he called them). 
Hey....I'm all for individuality, determination, and that "can do" attitude stuff....but when you apply those things without any consideration of reality or reason....just sayin'.
Really...what is your goal?
Is it to make good music...or to try and change the music biz model on some global scale...???
You're talking vague generalizations, and making what amounts to campaign slogans, but you don't have any actual step-by-step business process outlined or how to go about it.
Also....even if you come up with a working plan....at some point you need to realize that marketing alone won't do it.
You actually need a good product. That's what the guy with drum shell cabs never understood.....his product sucked.
Hey....I'm all for individuality, determination, and that "can do" attitude stuff....but when you apply those things without any consideration of reality or reason....just sayin'.
Really...what is your goal?
Is it to make good music...or to try and change the music biz model on some global scale...???
You're talking vague generalizations, and making what amounts to campaign slogans, but you don't have any actual step-by-step business process outlined or how to go about it.
Also....even if you come up with a working plan....at some point you need to realize that marketing alone won't do it.
You actually need a good product. That's what the guy with drum shell cabs never understood.....his product sucked.
N
NotThatBright
New member
I just had to point out that I liked this one.
J
jonny deep
Disappointing Member
All aboard the troll train.
Anders Erisian
XLIII
Hey Lugatt, i think you might consider me not worthy of responding to so feel free to ignore me.
I agree with your principles of egalitarianism and equality so i'm not having a go at your ideals, that serves me no purpose. I once did a fair bit of business with a company here in Australia which was a workers' co-operative. Management decisions were based on the input of all workers, multitasking and regularly changing roles for workers was the norm. They manufactured abrasive products (grinding wheels, belts etc.), and seemed to be quite successful and entirely professional and reliable with quality products fairly priced.
Sounds similar to what you mentioned, but enterprises like that are rare, and even more rarely successful in my experience, i know of at least two other workers co-operative companies here that failed in short order in the 90's, largely due to ineffective management and poor management decisions. Even Abrasiflex which is still in business disbanded as a workers co op and became a standard proprietary limited company, the reason cited was poor corporate governance. So i guess that what you described could work, and i sincerely wish you the best, but if i were you i'd be ready for the try and try again, you're up against some pretty hard nosed competition with some big players who have cornered a market in an industry that is saturated with product already. I'd happily offer you all my music and join in, but nobody really wants to hear my crap, and i've never really cared for money much anyway. I really only make music to get on a few peoples nerves these days. Good luck.
I agree with your principles of egalitarianism and equality so i'm not having a go at your ideals, that serves me no purpose. I once did a fair bit of business with a company here in Australia which was a workers' co-operative. Management decisions were based on the input of all workers, multitasking and regularly changing roles for workers was the norm. They manufactured abrasive products (grinding wheels, belts etc.), and seemed to be quite successful and entirely professional and reliable with quality products fairly priced.
Sounds similar to what you mentioned, but enterprises like that are rare, and even more rarely successful in my experience, i know of at least two other workers co-operative companies here that failed in short order in the 90's, largely due to ineffective management and poor management decisions. Even Abrasiflex which is still in business disbanded as a workers co op and became a standard proprietary limited company, the reason cited was poor corporate governance. So i guess that what you described could work, and i sincerely wish you the best, but if i were you i'd be ready for the try and try again, you're up against some pretty hard nosed competition with some big players who have cornered a market in an industry that is saturated with product already. I'd happily offer you all my music and join in, but nobody really wants to hear my crap, and i've never really cared for money much anyway. I really only make music to get on a few peoples nerves these days. Good luck.
But really i was just wondering how that went?
mjbphotos
Moderator
L
Lugatt
New member
This project concept has as much potential as that guy's in the Guitar forum, who was making guitar cabs out of drum shells (can't remember what he called them).
Hey....I'm all for individuality, determination, and that "can do" attitude stuff....but when you apply those things without any consideration of reality or reason....just sayin'.
Really...what is your goal?
Is it to make good music...or to try and change the music biz model on some global scale...???
You're talking vague generalizations, and making what amounts to campaign slogans, but you don't have any actual step-by-step business process outlined or how to go about it.
Also....even if you come up with a working plan....at some point you need to realize that marketing alone won't do it.
You actually need a good product. That's what the guy with drum shell cabs never understood.....his product sucked.
My goal? For now it is to find out if there anyone who will try to make changes, locally or globally, and I see no one. All I see here are arguments for "it will not work" or "no one's thought of this before."
My final goal is to try to make changes. I have seen many sites like reverbnation, I analysed them, I took interesting and great ideas (none of them are mine) and shaped in my mind in an internet platform for musicians.
More important is to find people to make co op and to make this project a reality, and not thru finding an investor. Anders Erisian here referred to such co ops, that they are rare and that majority of them have failed. Ok, majority of you feel fine with corporations dominating everywhere, or you see no chances in competing with them. Well, it is reasonable. As for me I am working with them from 2005 (Coca Cola, Bayer, ***** and etc.) And rationality are not their priority, not even profit. Bureaucracy is the only thing that rules there. Corporations are not interested in making the world better. Their managers are not interested even in profit optimization. I have to admit that in aviation industry (1998-2004) things are 180 degree different. But it is aviation, and mistakes can bring to very serious consequences and responsibility there is extremely high, but you can find bureaucracy even there, but it does not rule. Linux makes me believe that one day corporations will undergo drastic changes or will vanish.
Regarding step by step business process - any business or process starts from an idea, then - creation of the product or service, then - market and demand analysis and etc. In my particular case, idea, (and again, there is no my idea, I just put together, what i liked on different sites, in one unit) came from dealing with other products like reverbnation, myspace, stereofame and etc. I have definite vision in my mind how it must be. Will I try to realize this alone? I cannot, if I had been a web developer I would have done it by myself. Will I look for investor? No, he will spoil everything (have heard many stories). Will i try to make it on co op basis with musicians or programmers who will get interested? Definitely yes.
So far my goal is to find out is there any demand for changes, even small, even local, even in vain. Realistic answer is - no, but I was born in USSR and one day I faced extremely drastic changes.
G
Greg_L
Banned
You can't change anything. The end.
XploZiveToyz
All American Un-American
LOL! That was a good one! That one actually got a real "LOL!" from me! And you're right; business is booming! LOL!
Schwarzenyaeger
Formerly "Dog-In-Door"
The bassist in my band has been working on a soundcloud alternative for two years with a friend. They both have degrees in programming and work on it after work and on weekends next to their normal job and music hobbies.
They've got two years on you, get choppin'.
They've got two years on you, get choppin'.
G
Greg_L
Banned
I can't even keep track of all the NEW! music channels, sites, distribution DIY crap that I've seen come and go.
The bottom line - no one fucking cares.
The bottom line - no one fucking cares.
L
Lugatt
New member
Are they still working on that?
Schwarzenyaeger
Formerly "Dog-In-Door"
Most likely.
But then again, nobody cares about our recordings and we still keep on pumping them out.
@Lugatt: If you're asking me to put you in contact, no.
G
Greg_L
Banned
I pump out recording for my own amusement.
Schwarzenyaeger
Formerly "Dog-In-Door"
edit: I've decided to let the thread die.
G
Greg_L
Banned
Schwarzenyaeger
Formerly "Dog-In-Door"
ur nt hlping
VomitHatSteve
Hat STYLE. Not contents.
So you want a build a web-based community to do *something* to shake up the music industry?
Ok. First, you need someone to build the system for you (probably a developer. You can only get so far on a hosted Wordpress site)
Second, you need capital. In order for a community to accomplish anything, it needs to have members; in order to get members, you'll need to market it. In order to market, you need money. You can get that capital through many means: outside investors, saving up yourself, soliciting the community itself, selling ads, etc. But you need money, and you need a plan, or your project is just going to fall apart.
Ok. First, you need someone to build the system for you (probably a developer. You can only get so far on a hosted Wordpress site)
Second, you need capital. In order for a community to accomplish anything, it needs to have members; in order to get members, you'll need to market it. In order to market, you need money. You can get that capital through many means: outside investors, saving up yourself, soliciting the community itself, selling ads, etc. But you need money, and you need a plan, or your project is just going to fall apart.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
But how.....?
Like I said....you're just tossing out campaign slogans....."it's time for change".....etc.
Realistically, you have NO working idea how you will actually do that.
A co-op.....?
You mean like, "musicians for change"...where you guys all just talk about doing something but have no clue how to actually do it.
The Internet changed everything already...and it's not going to go back or become something different any time soon.
There are people with more financial backing than you will ever have....and they can't really change it.
There are artists with millions of fans, and they can't change it.
Stop acting like you have an actual working plan, and everyone here is simply not wanting to go along with you.
You have NO plan....you're just frustrated about you music not selling (like everyone else on the net)...and that's all this is about.
L
Lugatt
New member
So far it is like that:
1. Create online community. 2. Start making savings (each member of community keeps that savings on his personal account) and reports monthly about amount available for this project. 3 In parallel we discuss the vision that I have to give it final shape or to reject it completely and work out something new.
When the concept and its principals are developed, we can make defined layout of the site to have defined product.