Do you really need expensive stuff?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Harvey Gerst
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oh yes they will.. we've been trying to get this ep done for a long time and now there's just a bit of mixing left... i couldn't image what they'd say if i said "hey guys let's redo it! " hahaha

although i'd rather try to record some stuff a little more live (at least get the bass and drums in one take)
 
oh yes they will.. we've been trying to get this ep done for a long time and now there's just a bit of mixing left... i couldn't image what they'd say if i said "hey guys let's redo it! " hahaha

although i'd rather try to record some stuff a little more live (at least get the bass and drums in one take)

Well at least suggest it. Then when they start complaining six months from now about the flub that eats at thier brain every time they play a certain song, your ass is covered;)

It will happen. mark my words:D

At the very least make sure you have a good while for everyone to listen to all the songs before you send off for duplication or mastering.

F.S.
 
Well at least suggest it. Then when they start complaining six months from now about the flub that eats at thier brain every time they play a certain song, your ass is covered;)

It will happen. mark my words

F.S.
Boy, ain't that the truth.:confused:
 
harvey has made it ok for lots of us to buy and feel comfortable using inexpensive things like mxl microphones

thanks harvey!

you deserve an award of some sort with round-trip airfare to a resort location to receive it

"responsible for thousands of units sold" or something like that

ha ha maybe mxl and studio projects can get together on that
 
and please give harvey rep cause he deserves it

because of the way the rep works he had none at all while rank newbies were developing obscene rep weiners
 
"responsible for thousands of units sold" or something like that

ha ha maybe mxl and studio projects can get together on that
Yeah, and Behringer ECM8000, and CAD E200's, and Oktava MC012's - like that's ever gonna happen.

Behringer doesn't know me from Adam, and CAD/Equitek won't ever acknowledge they used my design for the E200, let alone send me a couple.

Alan Hyatt (at PMI), Wayne Freeman (at MXL), Larry Villella (at ADK), and Ken Avant (at Avant) are all great guys who stand behind the mics they sell - and crank out some decent stuff.

Mark McQuilken at (FMR), Dan Kennedy (Great River), Ivor Drawmer (Drawmer), Dirk Brauner (Brauner), EveAnna Manley (Manley), George Massenburg (GML), and John LaGrou (Millennia Media) are also on my good guys list, and I know I'm leaving out a lot more.

There are a lot of people who are in this industry that really care about what they make; I've been very blessed to know a lot of them.

If some of my tips and tricks have helped some of you over the years to make better recordings, then that's enough reward for me.
 
harvey, i was wondering what kind of pres you pair these mxl's up with when you're using them. you get amazing results. from the gear list at indian trail, it looks like you're either using the board pres, or something a little more high end like your millenia's or the great rivers (?). are you more likely to use a higher end pre than a higher end mic?
 
harvey, i was wondering what kind of pres you pair these mxl's up with when you're using them. you get amazing results. from the gear list at indian trail, it looks like you're either using the board pres, or something a little more high end like your millenia's or the great rivers (?). are you more likely to use a higher end pre than a higher end mic?
Most of the time, I'm pretty lazy, so I just use the Topaz pre's in the small studio. Very rarely, I'll use the Great River MP2 pre for a vocal. Since I work in Studio B most of the time (our low priced studio), I don't do a lot of experimenting.

My son Alex works in Studio A, which has all the bells and whistles stuff, and he uses the Millenia SST-1 or the Great River MP-2NV a lot, in addition to the really nice MCI board pre's.
 
Most of the time, I'm pretty lazy, so I just use the Topaz pre's in the small studio. Very rarely, I'll use the Great River MP2 pre for a vocal. Since I work in Studio B most of the time (our low priced studio), I don't do a lot of experimenting.

My son Alex works in Studio A, which has all the bells and whistles stuff, and he uses the Millenia SST-1 or the Great River MP-2NV a lot, in addition to the really nice MCI board pre's.

cool-- thanks for the response! in other words, you're not using the mxl's with your audiobuddy too often? do you feel like the pre (and the rest of the outboard) is an equal/greater/lesser part of the sound that goes to tape/disc than the mic? thanks again!
 
cool-- thanks for the response! in other words, you're not using the mxl's with your audiobuddy too often? do you feel like the pre (and the rest of the outboard) is an equal/greater/lesser part of the sound that goes to tape/disc than the mic? thanks again!
I don't think I've ever used the audiobuddy since I can't find the power supply. I would use the SP VTB-1 with a ribbon mic if I needed a really warm sounding vocal. The choice of pre is a bit less important to me than the choice of mic, which is, in turn, a bit less important to me than the placement of the mic.
 
and please give harvey rep cause he deserves it

because of the way the rep works he had none at all while rank newbies were developing obscene rep weiners

.....Done.


Check out "Hopes Fading" at:

http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/album.php?aid=2878&alid=-1

Done on N-track software with a Behringer mixer, with a Oktava MK319, and MXL 603 on a Soundblaster Live sound card w/live drive. Total cost of equipment including the computer was less than $1000. Sounds better than my other recordings on that link that were done in a highly respected multi million dollar studio.

Can't say it enough...
.....it's not what you have, but what you can do with it.
 
I don't think I've ever used the audiobuddy since I can't find the power supply. I would use the SP VTB-1 with a ribbon mic if I needed a really warm sounding vocal. The choice of pre is a bit less important to me than the choice of mic, which is, in turn, a bit less important to me than the placement of the mic.

awesome answer! mic placement will always be key whether it's an sm-57, or a u-47.
i guess i'm just wondering if it ultimately becomes, "do you really need expensive condenser mics?" i notice that you have some nice and fairly esoteric (i.e. pricey) ribbon mics and some awesome dynamics and some nice and fairly esoteric pres-- all of which it sounds like get used, but not many ldc's in that same kind of price range.
 
.....Done.


Check out "Hopes Fading" at:

http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/album.php?aid=2878&alid=-1

Done on N-track software with a Behringer mixer, with a Oktava MK319, and MXL 603 on a Soundblaster Live sound card w/live drive. Total cost of equipment including the computer was less than $1000. Sounds better than my other recordings on that link that were done in a highly respected multi million dollar studio.

Can't say it enough...
.....it's not what you have, but what you can do with it.

I listen to the clip. Nicely done. Good job.;)
 
Awesome answer! Mic placement will always be key whether it's an sm-57, or a u-47. I guess I'm just wondering if it ultimately becomes, "do you really need expensive condenser mics?" I notice that you have some nice and fairly esoteric (i.e. pricey) ribbon mics and some awesome dynamics and some nice and fairly esoteric pres-- all of which it sounds like get used, but not many ldc's in that same kind of price range.
Each mic design has trade-offs, usually accuracy for noise. The most accurate mics are small omnis, but as the size decreases, the noise goes up. Ya don't hafta be a rocket scientist to figure out why; the smaller diaphragm doesn't put out as much signal as a bigger diaphragm, so you hafta crank it more and you amplify the noise along with the signal.

Large condenser mics can only do certain things very well, especially when you get into different patterns. Large diaphragm mics get wonky off axis (which means they can be shitty on sounds coming from different directions). That's why large diaphragm condensers are best as a vocal mic; the mouth is a pretty small target, and occasionally very quiet. Large condensers are great for picking up quiet sources. Trade offs.

Small diaphragm condenser mics generally have better off-axis response, so they're "usually" better for miking bigger stuff (guitars, drum kits, choirs, etc.), in other words, anything where the sound is coming at you from a lot of different places. But, because they're smaller, they won't be as sensitive as large condenser mics. Trade offs, again.

So what's the best vocal mic? Usually a large diaphragm mic is the first thing the pros reach for. Ribbons and dynamics are a close second.

What's the best mic for larger instruments? Unless you own a very well designed large diaphragm condenser mic, usually a small diaphragm will work better (unless it's a very quiet source and you're willing to give up some accuracy for extra low noise output).

Finally, most mics aren't truly flat - most have little spikes and dips that occur all over the place. The frequency response charts that you see from mic manufacturers are smoothed to eliminate those short peaks and dips, but they're still there. And they're different for every mic - even two that are exactly the same brand and model.

Now here's the important part: When you happen to sing or play a note that corresponds to a peak or dip, the sound is gonna change. So, what does that mean? It means that a mic that sounds great on one voice, one guitar, or even in one key, may sound very different on another voice, another guitar, or even in a different key.

And that's where the problem lies when people try to compare a mic to other mics, and especially when you hear people say things like "this Chinese mic sounds identical to a U87", or whatever. For that singer, that guitar, or in that key, that may be true. It just means that the peaks and dips in the two mics didn't get pushed so hard that you could hear the differences between the two mics. On something else, the differences can be night and day.

The other factor is that, unless you've been doing this stuff for a long time, you're ear isn't trained to hear some of the differences, and you'll think only in terms of louder or brighter or darker. It's really easy to miss hearing the small peaks and dips, which only comes with longer listening sessions and some ear training. When you compare mics, if a mic sounds "brighter", or "more detailed", make sure you're not confusing high frequency peaks and/or treble boost for those qualities.

While it's not cut and dried, be suspicious of louder mics - it usually means that accuracy has been sacrificed, and try to figure out where that "extra loudness" is coming from. Remember, "bigger" means "louder", but it also means "less accurate". "Less accurate" is not in itself a bad thing, if it's more flattering, but just be aware that it is less "accurate".

There are always trade offs in choosing equipment; I just try to make those trade offs work for me over the long haul when choosing a mic for a particular task.
 
this would be a nice area for the presentation
 

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maybe the waldorf towers hotel...
 

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yeah i remember alan hyatt!

he was a very helpful guy. he handled himself very well

the studio projects guy wasnt he?

i remember the excitement here about the b1 and the c1 and the tube mics

and of course the preamp

i was glad when i saw all that stuff in the big sweetwater catalog
 
...or even in a different key.
thanks for helping us think about mics in a different more basic way.

every post is gold

harvey has a real nice studio of his own

ive been to your website in the past and every time i wished i had a band i could stroll in there with
 
Harvey-- a great and informative post as always. My point about dynamics and ribbons is mainly that, the most sought after dynamics-- original sm7's, re-20's, vintage d-12's, hd-421's/441's/431's, will probably max out at $500-600 and for ribbons, (Royers aside) RCA's, AEA's, Beyers and the like-- even Sank-modded will probably hover around $1200 (though some will exceed that, and some will be less). I understand that a vintage u-47 in good shape can easily exceed $10 even 20k and there are many production models of solid state and tube condensers that new, cost more than $5k. Given the proliferation of Chinese manufactured condenser mics that copy classic circuits with cheaper components but with cloned capsules (albeit with questionable quality control for some companies), it seems understandable that some of these mics would offer performance that exceeds their price-- particularly transformerless desigins (I understand that the Chinese cloned transformer manufacturing processes has not developed at an equal pace its capsule manufacturing processes), and particularly since many of the transformerless Chinese mic circuits are basically now the same as the Schoeps/Dorsey circuit design.

With pres, I read something interesting in the Langevin DVC manual talking about how many solid state preamps-- particularly less expensive ones will use negative feedback to "lower noise and distortion at the cost of transient accuracy." Is this essentially similar to 'phase cancelling' noise, but also parts of the desired sound? That these designs used "hundreds of dB's of negative feedback...The result is good specs - but that harsh, hard cold sound that makes shakers sound like pink noise, make vocals sibilant in an unpleasant way, and can only render a 2 dimensional image at best." What I gather is that an inexpensive, Chinese made microphone with a pronounced mid to high range presence peak (2-5k and above), might sound great through a nice pre that does not use that kind of solid state design, might have those qualities exacerbated by a cheaper pre and its use of negative feedback. So it makes me think that MXL + good pre can be awesome, MXL + poorly designed pre (not necessarily inexpensive-- the DMP3 is by all reports, a great pre at an inexpensive price) = can equal sibilant mess-- particularly if you get mic with a capsule that was not screened out by QC.
 
Harvey

Sometimes a really cheap microphone sounds better than a hi end expensive one, depending on the situation and application.
As you know recording jazz/dixieland bands works best when you track them in one good sounding room, including the upright bass player. Upright players hate to play seperated from the band in a booth. I'm not talking about the pro's, but the average amateur jazzband.

This upright bass is a real pain in the ass, the instrument is big so in order to catch it's full tone, you have to place the mic at some distance, but with a loud drummer and horns you're in big trouble.

So you put a mic wrapped in foam in the bridge, or an uni at close distance, but though the bleed from the other instruments gets less, the sound of the bass gets worse as well, proximity and other shit.

I've been thinking, since an omni doesn't suffer from proximity it might be much better to put a SDC omni close to the upright, you may have a little more bleed but no proximity at very close range.

I'v been experimenting with lots of mics on the upright and actually one's never done searching for that ultimate bass tone with lots of wood and as little bleed as possible. I've found out that an ECM8000 wrapped in foam under the tailpiece can sound even better than a Neumann M149 close to the bass in uni.

What are your thoughts about recording the upright, together with the band in the same room?

Peace
 
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