Do you really need expensive stuff?

[isfahani]

...If you can hear a difference between the cheap stuff then guess what?!

You haven't totally lost your hearing yet?

 

[omtayslick]

Yet the same people will argue all day that the DMP3 sounds so much better than the mbox or vice versa. If you can hear a difference between the cheap stuff then guess what?!

We should all get DMP3s? (Was I right? Did I win?)

 

[chessrock]

People get bent out of shape sometimes, especially around this middle-school, when you tell them your expensive equipment sounds better than their cheap equipment. Yet the same people will argue all day that the DMP3 sounds so much better than the mbox or vice versa. If you can hear a difference between the cheap stuff then guess what?!

Your comments tend to be pretty much spot on.

But in this case, I think there's a good deal more to it than that.

At this "middle school" level, people are going to hear what they want to hear. Or more accurately, they're going to hear what they "expect" to hear. The brain is a mysterious organ that way. You sell that Joemeek box of yours on ebay because you read in a magazine review that the Focusrite ultra track-a-doodle in a rack is such a clear step up and bla bla bla.

You take that thing out of the box, plug it in, and you're damn right your tracks are going to sound so much better. It's like when your client asks you to turn up the bass or add more reverb to their voice ... and you don't touch a damn thing before he says "that's better."

.

 

[kidvybes]

It's like when your client asks you to turn up the bass or add more reverb to their voice ... and you don't touch a damn thing before he says "that's better."

.

(LOL)...been there, heard that!...

 

[zbert]

It's like when your client asks you to turn up the bass or add more reverb to their voice ... and you don't touch a damn thing before he says "that's better."

.

Live or in the studio I always turn a knob or use a fader that's not connected to anything. I usually get the "Oh yeah, that's much better"

 

[Thorguitarist]

I recorded my band about 8 months ago in a small living room with just some basic stuff...actually probably cheaper stuff than harvey...I thought our stuff came out pretty good for what it was. If you want to listen click the link my signature.

In other notes the songs you recorded Harvey are Amazing! Not only is the music good but the recording it self. Can't argue with those results.

 

[chance]

Live or in the studio I always turn a knob or use a fader that's not connected to anything. I usually get the "Oh yeah, that's much better"

This reminds me of a true story that happened to me.
For Christmas, my daughter gave me this rack gear that was fake rack gear it only looked like the real deal but were only filler panels with knobs, meters, and silkscreened lettering.
A producer recorded his group and this group worshipped him. During mix down, he was instructing my every move. Then he just stood there and meditated and said "it needs something else". Then he looked at those fake rack things and said "lets try those". I told him "those are nothing". He firmly said again "TRY THEM". So I took the song to the top and started turning a knob (that did absolutely nothing) and he said "more, more, too much, back it off a little, a little more, now just up a tad,,,,, PERFECT!" then the whole band started cheering and praising their producer. Man I just wanted to puke.
I know,,,, off topic, I couldn't resist

 

[mshilarious]

This reminds me of a true story that happened to me.
For Christmas, my daughter gave me this rack gear that was fake rack gear it only looked like the real deal but were only filler panels with knobs, meters, and silkscreened lettering.

Funk Logic rules!

One of my remaining goals in life is to build a functional Digilog Dynamicator, but alas, they have discontinued it!

 

[tkingen]

People get bent out of shape sometimes, especially around this middle-school, when you tell them your expensive equipment sounds better than their cheap equipment. Yet the same people will argue all day that the DMP3 sounds so much better than the mbox or vice versa. If you can hear a difference between the cheap stuff then guess what?!

Your point is well taken but I doubt anyone's arguing that their banjo mart stuff sounds as good as your pro stuff. The middle school snipe sounds like it came from the high school assistant coach

 

[Middleman]

I think the bottom line is, do you need pro gear to get a world class sound? The answer is no, but I want it anyway.

 

[willowhaus]

At this "middle school" level, people are going to hear what they want to hear. Or more accurately, they're going to hear what they "expect" to hear. The brain is a mysterious organ that way. You sell that Joemeek box of yours on ebay because you read in a magazine review that the Focusrite ultra track-a-doodle in a rack is such a clear step up and bla bla bla.

You take that thing out of the box, plug it in, and you're damn right your tracks are going to sound so much better. It's like when your client asks you to turn up the bass or add more reverb to their voice ... and you don't touch a damn thing before he says "that's better."

.

Heh - reminds me of a discussion on another forum, about a recent DAW upgrade. No changes were made to the audio engine, yet there were all these people who would swear the new version sounded 'clearer'...

Oh, and - Hi everybody! I'm new here, but not so new to web forums or the audio world...so I look forward to hopefully making a contribution, along with learning a few things! (We never stop, do we...?)

 

[tdukex]

At this "middle school" level, people are going to hear what they want to hear. Or more accurately, they're going to hear what they "expect" to hear. The brain is a mysterious organ that way. You sell that Joemeek box of yours on ebay because you read in a magazine review that the Focusrite ultra track-a-doodle in a rack is such a clear step up and bla bla bla.

You take that thing out of the box, plug it in, and you're damn right your tracks are going to sound so much better. It's like when your client asks you to turn up the bass or add more reverb to their voice ... and you don't touch a damn thing before he says "that's better."

.

Heh - reminds me of a discussion on another forum, about a recent DAW upgrade. No changes were made to the audio engine, yet there were all these people who would swear the new version sounded 'clearer'...

Oh, and - Hi everybody! I'm new here, but not so new to web forums or the audio world...so I look forward to hopefully making a contribution, along with learning a few things! (We never stop, do we...?)

Yes, and although I agree, this same phenomenon happens when people buy high end gear. And it has nothing to do with the original point of Harvey's thread.

 

[Harvey Gerst]

Yes, and it has nothing to do with the original point of Harvey's thread.

Yup, the whole point of my thread is that you can make acceptable home recordings without spending a lot of dollars on fancy equipment.

What is "acceptable" will vary from person to person, but something good enough to get gigs or generate further interest in the music is my definition. In my examples, the band was well rehearsed, and my job was made that much easier. The most expensive mic used was the ATM25 on the kick, at $125. Every other mic was under $100; in some cases, way under that price.

No fancy pre's, compressors, reverbs, or gadgets. Just the musicians, playing their asses off, and me, trying to keep the equipment from getting in the way of that.

Would it have been better with more expensive equipment? Probably, but I can't say how much better. The stuff I used captured the excitement, and that's the most important part of an engineer's job.

The band is happy; they have a CD to sell at their next show, and there's been some indie label interest. If the label is interested in having a better recording (and is willing to pay for it), we can move to the big room and cut their songs with the fancy equipment.

 

[tkingen]

Yup, the whole point of my thread is that you can make acceptable home recordings without spending a lot of dollars on fancy equipment.

What is "acceptable" will vary from person to person, but something good enough to get gigs or generate further interest in the music is my definition. In my examples, the band was well rehearsed, and my job was made that much easier. The most expensive mic used was the ATM25 on the kick, at $125. Every other mic was under $100; in some cases, way under that price.

No fancy pre's, compressors, reverbs, or gadgets. Just the musicians, playing their asses off, and me, trying to keep the equipment from getting in the way of that.

Would it have been better with more expensive equipment? Probably, but I can't say how much better. The stuff I used captured the excitement, and that's the most important part of an engineer's job.

The band is happy; they have a CD to sell at their next show, and there's been some indie label interest. If the label is interested in having a better recording (and is willing to pay for it), we can move to the big room and cut their songs with the fancy equipment.

Thanks Harvey and God bless.

 

[CoolCat]

great post Harvey, appreciate you taking the time.
very encouraging to hear a great mix on cheaper equipment and listed, such as the RNC and mics etc..

getting the CD finished to sell at the show, insinuates you kept the project moving too. Any comments on this subject?

Ex..How do you keep things moving instead of stagnating?
as into the "re-mix the re-mix, re-mix, re-record the bass again yadyayadada..the band wants to re-do that one song again...take 76! fhk..Take 77..

 

[boingoman]

Yup, the whole point of my thread is that you can make acceptable home recordings without spending a lot of dollars on fancy equipment. .

Another thing I've always gotten from you is basically "Hey, I'm just a regular guy- this isn't rocket science or magic, people. Pay attention to the basics, they will take you far along the road to making good recordings."

For instance, in your posts about how you approach the drums, to me the first sentence is the most important.

Okay, after the drums are set up, I have the drummer actually play a song while I stand in front of the set and listen.

The rest is just details, as I see it. Very valuable details, of course. But without that critical first step, it doesn't seem like you are going to get very far.

 

[Harvey Gerst]

great post Harvey, appreciate you taking the time.
very encouraging to hear a great mix on cheaper equipment and listed, such as the RNC and mics etc..

getting the CD finished to sell at the show, insinuates you kept the project moving too. Any comments on this subject?

Ex..How do you keep things moving instead of stagnating?
as into the "re-mix the re-mix, re-mix, re-record the bass again yadyayadada..the band wants to re-do that one song again...take 76! fhk..Take 77..

You always need somebody to say "when it's soup"! (Remember the old Campbell's soup commercial: "Is it soup yet?")

When we did the first song ("Right Here"), Heather sang a killer scratch track, with the monitor speakers blaring away 3 feet from her mic. When she did the actual vocal (with headphones in the studio), the excitement just wasn't there; she was playing it too safe. I made the call to use the scratch vocal, even with the speakers blaring, cuz it was a far better take.

On the last song, Joel missed a drum fill, but when you added the congas, it wasn't really noticeable. If this had been an album for a major label, I'd have been far more demanding, and we might have spent days (or even weeks) working on getting every song perfect.

So, first, you hafta have somebody present that knows what the final goal is; and when "it's soup".

And somebody at the end, to make sure that goal has been accomplished.

During the band takes, I'd solo whatever somebody didn't like, and if it was an obvious flub, we'd punch it in.

Where Chris had some complicated guitar solos, or effect switching, I'd lay those in separately - after all the basic tracks were finished. Same thing with the keyboard tracks; lay in the easy stuff on the full band takes, then do the harder stuff separately, with the rest of the band finished.

 

[Harvey Gerst]

Another thing I've always gotten from you is basically "Hey, I'm just a regular guy- this isn't rocket science or magic, people. Pay attention to the basics, they will take you far along the road to making good recordings."

For instance, in your posts about how you approach the drums, to me the first sentence is the most important:

Okay, after the drums are set up, I have the drummer actually play a song while I stand in front of the set and listen.

The rest is just details, as I see it. Very valuable details, of course. But without that critical first step, it doesn't seem like you are going to get very far.

Yup, if it's not happening in the room, it ain't gonna happen on tape.

 

[MCI2424]

Yup, if it's not happening in the room, it ain't gonna happen on tape.

You can just fix it in the mix..........................

Remember the 70s?

 

[c7sus]

Yup, if it's not happening in the room, it ain't gonna happen on tape.

So THAT'S why it's not happening on my disk!

Okay, back to the woodshed.......