Do you go by what the band wants?

N

nothingtodiefor

New member
I just recorded a band whose timing was all over the place with each other but they were happy with the playing.

Would you tell the guys they need to keep doing takes until they get it right? Or would you just let it be if that's what the band wants?


Thanks.
 
Let them know that there is a problem with timing, but if that's what they want, "the customer is always right..."
 
see the problem is that you occasionally run into that "are they all light years beyond my intellect and I'm too dumb to understand??" or they are just simply retarded musicians that get way too much credit?" debate.

What makes Jack White good? Or does he suck?
What makes punk music good? or does it suck?
What makes lo-fi retro stuff like the strokes good? or do they suck?

I think it comes down to instinct. I think if a song portrays what it's going for, whether it sucks or not, then that's the respect you give it.

Now if it just plain sucks and borders on a lobotomy, then I think the engineer is responsible for "educating" the client.
 
nothingtodiefor said:
I just recorded a band whose timing was all over the place with each other but they were happy with the playing.

Would you tell the guys they need to keep doing takes until they get it right? Or would you just let it be if that's what the band wants?
Click to expand...
It all depends upon their answer to one of the first questions I ask them before the session even begins: "Who's producing this?"

If their answer is a blank stare, then I tell them that they gotta decide before I can even start, and that it can't be the whole band producing as a democracy, because that never works with a band that answers the producing question with a blank stare.

They have four choices; bring an an outside producer (which the blank stare guys never do), pick one member - usually the band leader - to be the producer, leave the producing up to me, or have the band leader and me co-produce.

Then whoever winds up being chosen to have the responsibility of producer calls the shots as far a when the take is good enough and/or whether they have to budget for another take or not.

G.
 
+1 one on what Glenn said. It really comes down to who's producing the session.

If your hired as an engineer it's really the producer or bands call unless you can diplomatically convince them that they can get it better and point out the discrepancies, but that can become a slippery slope imo.
 
nothingtodiefor said:
I just recorded a band whose timing was all over the place with each other but they were happy with the playing.
Click to expand...

I would think it's usually one guy that's really off and maybe pulling the others.

You need to diplomatically demonstrate the problem without appearing like you are picking on anyone and explain the potential issues of going forward without addressing it....
...then yeah, if they want to shrug it off, at least there is no chance they can toss it back at you, like you should have said something.
But lots of people are intimidated in the studio even if they are normally solid players when they gig.
So, someone has to run the show, and often that’s either the engineer or the producer or both, unless there is a strong leader in the band (not an ego-tripper) who understands the whole process.
But you really can't expect too much forward thinking from a band that's green in the studio.

You are part of the process...so take pride in your work and not just the money. I don’t like that “the customer is always right” approach when everyone is making creative decisions, but only some have the technical skill to understand how to make them happen.

While I don’t do a lot of outside work…whenever I’ve recorded others, I always felt and wanted to be a part of the project, and not just a knob jockey…so yeah, if it sounds like shit…I’m going to say something.
 
I'd say something because what if it gets released and your name is on it and it's sounds like shit?

You can't pay me enough to go along with crap, I've told a few people to GTFO, you have to. I've told people their songs weren't good enough to record. You have to or you're just making burgers.

Even if I wanted to, I can't go along with crap. I can't hide it and anybody that comes to me knows I won't. I know people respect me for that, and I'm proud of that!

I can't tell you how happy I am that I've kept to that all my life. Otherwise my music would be ruined and I wouldn't have what I have.

Never let anyone talk you into anything your gut tells you not to do!
 
The funny thing about the saying "the customer is always right" is that it was never meant to actually mean that the customer is always right. It's salesman-speak for you have to let the customer believe they are always right by selling them on what you want them to think is the right idea, whether their own idea was actually right or wrong.

I'm not saying I advocate that idea - at least not in many circumstances. Which is why I am no longer in sales, because you have to believe that all the time to be a good salesman.

This is one (of several) reasons why someone has to take the title and responsibility for being producer; they are ultimately responsible for the final sound and get stuck with that by being called such in the song or album credits. If I am just the engineer, there's always the plausible deniability of saying, "Yeah I engineered, but the producer called the shots. blame him for those sucky sounding drums." Of course, I always reserve the right to have my name taken off the credits if the production really sucks wind.

G.
 
nothingtodiefor said:
IWould you tell the guys they need to keep doing takes until they get it right? Or would you just let it be if that's what the band wants?
Click to expand...

You can get a sense of how close they are to "getting it right". If they're on the brink of nailing it, see if you can push them to that spot on performance. If they're not even near getting it right, you can refer to beat detective. If that's out of the question and you have the liberty of being vocal with the band. Maybe ask them to either slow down the tempo, take out that drum fill that screws it all up, or let you play the guitar part :eek:.

Like Lee was saying earlier, there is definitely a point where rhythmic looseness is a desired effect. I think you can do your best to judge the intention of the musicians. Some musicians would prefer a robotic beat, some don't even want an evident pulse, and some want somewhere in between.
 
Thanks for the input guys!!! I'm the type that wants them to do it until its perfect. It's so much easier to mix when the timing is good, especially when you are mixing a hardcore band whose palm mutes and kick drums have to be tight.

From now on I'm going to push the bands until its spot on. I will also encourage bands, especially drummers, to practice with a metronome before going into the studio.


Thanks
 
Glen is 100% right about the producer bit. So let's take this question assuming the band answered "you are the producer". In my case, that is usually what happens anyway.

No, I do not let the band get away with crap. We do it until it is correct. Here is where it gets interesting.

You need great people skills. You need to be on their side on a personal level while going against their side on a creative level. Learn who these people are and learn how to keep them happy while correcting them. If the tallent gets pissed off, nothing is getting done until they cool off.
 
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