Do you check your mix in mono?

  • Thread starter Thread starter danny.guitar
  • Start date Start date
D

danny.guitar

Guest
Well?

Is there really a point? Not many people are running a CD player with one speaker these days.

I've made mixes that sound great in stereo, but no so good in mono, and I feel adjusting it for mono may make the stereo mix not sound as good. Why sacrifice a good stereo mix for a decent mono mix?

I don't have any phase issues or anything in mono, but the volume levels aren't good, for example, lead instruments sometimes sound burried underneath the rest of the mix, but fixing this causes the lead to be too far up front in the stereo mix.

I guess if I were a qualified ME I could get it to sound good in both, but I'm not.

What are your opinions?
 
I try to make everything sound as good as possible in mono including stereo tracks. Why? Because my teacher is anal about phase.
 
Well I usually don't have any phase problems, at least none that I can hear. It's just the volume of different instruments that gives me problems.

Because my teacher is anal about phase.
Click to expand...

You have a teacher?
 
I've tried mixing in mono a couple of times. That is, don't pan anything until the very last step. Set all your levels, EQ, effects, etc. Get it sounding as good as you can in mono first, then pan stuff where you want it. Worked great.
 
scrubs said:
I've tried mixing in mono a couple of times. That is, don't pan anything until the very last step. Set all your levels, EQ, effects, etc. Get it sounding as good as you can in mono first, then pan stuff where you want it. Worked great.
Click to expand...

That's kind of a cool idea. I'll have to give it a shot sometime.
 
scrubs said:
I've tried mixing in mono a couple of times. That is, don't pan anything until the very last step. Set all your levels, EQ, effects, etc. Get it sounding as good as you can in mono first, then pan stuff where you want it. Worked great.
Click to expand...
I don't mix much anymore - But that's *still* how I approach almost every mixing session... If you can give the instruments the space they need to work well together in mono, they'll generally keep it in stereo.

Just because you don't tend to *listen* in mono, you'll notice how the best mixes almost always still sound good *in* mono.
 
I always do mono checks.

Another very helpful check I do is to listen to the mix at whisper soft levels. If you can hear all the parts when the volume is barely audible you know the balances will be pretty close at regular volume.

Just for kicks I'm going to try what scrubs said, mixing all in mono and then going to stereo toward the end of the process.
 
danny.guitar said:
Well I usually don't have any phase problems, at least none that I can hear. It's just the volume of different instruments that gives me problems.
Click to expand...
That is caused by phase.

No, no one plays cds on a mono player. However, some car systems are set up to not have any real stereo separation. My daughters 1999 ford escort is like that. The way the speakers are aimed off the back shelf, it gives you a mono image. I'm sure that isn't the only car like that and there are millions of escorts on the road. Also, when you are listening on a boombox and you don't have your head placed directly between the speakers, you are listening in mono. When the stereo is in the next room, you are listening in mono.

Mono happens all the time.
 
scrubs said:
I've tried mixing in mono a couple of times. That is, don't pan anything until the very last step. Set all your levels, EQ, effects, etc. Get it sounding as good as you can in mono first, then pan stuff where you want it. Worked great.
Click to expand...

That's a good idea, I'm going to try that.
 
I like to make sure things sound good in mono but even more important to me these days is making sure a mix sounds good through a surround processor. Many people leave their H-Fi's set to surround when they play CDs and it can REALLY screw with your mix.

Ironically it seems that a mix with good mono compatibility will also have good surround compatibility. Same as when collapsing to mono the phase relationship between the stereo channels is what affects the mix the most when it is sent through surround processing.
 
I pretty much always check for mono, since my computer speakers suck ass and ARE mono. I mix through headphones and monitors, but I always check through the computer speakers too.
 
Always. I even pan in mono because there are sweetspots that pop out. If it sounds decent in mono, when you flip back to stereo it sounds incredible.
 
I gotta say that I'm the odd man out on this one in that I only occasionally do a mono check any more. Well-designed stereo mixes sound good in mono. Slapped-together stereo mixes sound bad in mono. Design and construct a good stereo mix and a mono check isn't really necessary all that often.

Exceptions are productions with beaucoup instrument parts, where it can be easy to lose track of all the interrelations between tracks, and on productions where the tracking is sonically sloppy or monotone.

G.
 
Farview said:
That is caused by phase.

No, no one plays cds on a mono player. However, some car systems are set up to not have any real stereo separation. My daughters 1999 ford escort is like that. The way the speakers are aimed off the back shelf, it gives you a mono image. I'm sure that isn't the only car like that and there are millions of escorts on the road. Also, when you are listening on a boombox and you don't have your head placed directly between the speakers, you are listening in mono. When the stereo is in the next room, you are listening in mono.

Mono happens all the time.
Click to expand...

I can't believe you let your daughter buy such a crappy car. an escort? come one man. dad is supposed to prevent this kind of thing. let me guess.....she married a hip hop producer? :p
 
Last edited:
The value of a mono check depends on the material I suppose. I used to check mono compatibility out of habit, but not so much anymore. I don’t record for anyone but myself now. For my type of music I prefer to optimize the stereo experience. My compositions are wide, swirling, ethereal… drawing from Classical, New Age, Progressive Rock and Electronica. No point to listening in mono.

~Tim
:)
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
Well-designed stereo mixes sound good in mono. Slapped-together stereo mixes sound bad in mono. Design and construct a good stereo mix and a mono check isn't really necessary all that often.
Click to expand...

Well this one song inparticular that I mixed, sounds really good in stereo, to me anyway. I wouldn't change anything.

But when listening in mono, it doesn't sound so great.

Maybe there are phase issues...but I don't hear any.

Could it be the way it was tracked? All tracks were done in mono. I doubled-up some of the guitars, but mic position was pretty much the same in both.
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
I gotta say that I'm the odd man out on this one in that I only occasionally do a mono check any more.
Click to expand...

nah, I'm with you on this one Glen.
I hardly do it much anymore, although I know I should. I think the only times I do check it is when I'm worried it may actually be played back on mono speakers by someone. And usually it's when I know I've done something that may sound good in stereo but won't translate to mono well at all (ie. delays on a stereo channel with L/R delay times set a smidge apart).
 
danny.guitar said:
Could it be the way it was tracked? All tracks were done in mono. I doubled-up some of the guitars, but mic position was pretty much the same in both.
Click to expand...
Probably a combination of the way it was tracked and the way it was mixed.

Remember that a lot of issues that mono checking brings out are not just phase issues but also spectral issues.

The irony of mono checking on metal mixes (which is what I assume yours is based upon the immediate play call of guitar doubling) is that all the mono checking is doing is forcing us to adjust the mix to be the way we should have done it from the get-go...which just so happens to be counter to what many of us believe it should be mixed like.

Each of us that wants a "wall of sound" with our guitars has to remember that a solid wall has to be built of individual bricks with different sonic characteristics. When creating a wall of guitars, each guitar track needs to have a unique fingerprint from each other. The more identical their sonic fingerprints, the greater the chances of failing the mono test and the flatter and less interesting the wall will be.

Handle this in tracking by using *different* mics in the same positions, different amp settings or models, or (may fav, when possible) different guitars. Then further handle it in mixing by layering these tracks on top of each other to get the thickness, and by splitting left and right spectrally to get the seperation and to help avoid phase conflicts.

Remember that the father of the wall of sound, Phil Spector, built his walls almost entirely in mono. His entire production was one huge mono check ;). He wound up building his walls using a plethora of instruments from garbage cans to cellos, electric basses to trumpets, all in one wall. It's not just a coincidence or an abstract artistic decision on his part to have built them that way (though perhaps part of it); he built them that way because they had to sound good in mono. and the only way to get them to sound good in mono was to build a wall but give each brick it's own space. Otherwise there'd be nothing but mud building up.

So design the tracking and stereo mixes to allow each instrument it's own space or at least it's own unique identity, and not only will the stereo mix itself sound textured and interesting, but the mono mix will more or less automatically fall into place.

It takes practice if one is not used to mixing that way, but once one gets the hang of it, it'll come easy; like putting a puzzle together the second time.

G.
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
Probably a combination of the way it was tracked and the way it was mixed.

Remember that a lot of issues that mono checking brings out are not just phase issues but also spectral issues.

The irony of mono checking on metal mixes (which is what I assume yours is based upon the immediate play call of guitar doubling) is that all the mono checking is doing is forcing us to adjust the mix to be the way we should have done it from the get-go...which just so happens to be counter to what many of us believe it should be mixed like.

Each of us that wants a "wall of sound" with our guitars has to remember that a solid wall has to be built of individual bricks with different sonic characteristics. When creating a wall of guitars, each guitar track needs to have a unique fingerprint from each other. The more identical their sonic fingerprints, the greater the chances of failing the mono test and the flatter and less interesting the wall will be.

Handle this in tracking by using *different* mics in the same positions, different amp settings or models, or (may fav, when possible) different guitars. Then further handle it in mixing by layering these tracks on top of each other to get the thickness, and by splitting left and right spectrally to get the seperation and to help avoid phase conflicts.

Remember that the father of the wall of sound, Phil Spector, built his walls almost entirely in mono. His entire production was one huge mono check ;). He wound up building his walls using a plethora of instruments from garbage cans to cellos, electric basses to trumpets, all in one wall. It's not just a coincidence or an abstract artistic decision on his part to have built them that way (though perhaps part of it); he built them that way because they had to sound good in mono. and the only way to get them to sound good in mono was to build a wall but give each brick it's own space. Otherwise there'd be nothing but mud building up.

So design the tracking and stereo mixes to allow each instrument it's own space or at least it's own unique identity, and not only will the stereo mix itself sound textured and interesting, but the mono mix will more or less automatically fall into place.

It takes practice if one is not used to mixing that way, but once one gets the hang of it, it'll come easy; like putting a puzzle together the second time.

G.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice Glenn, very insightful as always.

Actually my mix isn't metal (I don't play metal ;)). It's an acoustic instrumental... guitars, synths, and a piano.

I double-tracked the rhythm guitars, panned one left (-80), the other right (+80) for a more full sound.

I kept the bass and all lead instruments in the middle.

Here's the mix if you want to hear it.

Lo-Fi · Hi-Fi
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top