Do we fall in love too soon?

T

TaoManna Don

man of [quite a]few words
Do we fall in love too soon?

No, this post isn’t a new song for you to critique. But it is about songs – your songs. If you are posting here, you are one of two kinds of people: a new songwriter seeking feedback or a seasoned songwriter who wants to help the new guys. If you are the latter (as I am) then you probably share my frustration on this subject – most new songwriters ignore all advice, good or bad.

When you post your lyric and ask for feedback, what do you really want to hear? Do you want an honest critique with helpful advice on how you might improve your song? Or do you just want to hear how much we like what you have done? You can get all the flattering praise you need from family and friends. Do yourself a favor and open yourself up to the fact that there are several good songwriters here who want to help; but they can’t if you will not let them.

Your new song is like a newborn baby for you. It’s your creation. You worked hard on it. It’s special. How could everyone not love it as much as you do? The answer to my original question is YES. We fall in love too soon with our songs. We justify and defend what we have done. We sometimes are offended, even infuriated, when someone suggests it is not perfect. We say a polite “thank you”, try to read as much praise into the adviser’s advice as possible, and then ignore the actual advice.

Forty years ago I wrote my first song. It was pretty bad. Over the years I have received terrible, confusing, and (often) very good advice. Some of that advice I paid for. Most of it, I ignored (even when I paid for it). Eventually, I realized I need help and I started paying attention. I don’t make my living writing songs but I have learned a lot over the years. I can recognize a good lyric. I can usually tell why a lyric works and why it doesn’t. Every now and then I will see a lyric with promise on a forum like this. I try to help. Others, some with much more talent than I have, will also offer advice. Unfortunately, in every case, the songwriter has already fallen in love with his song and really just wants us to tell him how much we love it too.

For me, songwriting is a joy-filled thing. Few other activities can make me feel as great as seeing a good song come together. If you feel as I do, the most important thing is to keep writing. The only other issue is the speed at which we improve our songwriting skills. We will improve our skills much faster if we fall in love much slower.

Keep writing,
Don
 
To Grow No Mo'

Today I've been thinking about something that makes me want to revisit this topic. We do sometimes fall in love too soon with our songs; but sometimes we also fall in love too soon with ourselves -- in other words, with our song writing skills. It doesn't matter how long we have been writing, there will always be more we can learn. Books, classes, clubs, forums, expert advice, etc. can provide us with more and more knowledge, as long as we actually implement and practice what we learn. The more we learn, the better we can judge the quality of the advice we receive.

But what happens when we reach that plateau? Now we know it all. Now it's just a matter of getting that lucky break and we'll be rich and famous. If you think you have already reached that point in your songwriting life, the success of your songwriting future may still be unwritten; but one thing is certain-- you will grow no mo'.

I have participated on a number of songwriter forums over the years. On one forum I came in contact with a writer who may be the best I have seen on any forum. He has had some of his songs published by a small publishing company; but no recordings so far. He was a favorite of many who were active on the forum, though he always thanked advisers and then ignored their advice. He had already fallen in love with his songs before he posted them. But I couldn't really blame him. He is a far better songwriter than I'll ever be.

I read his work faithfully for months. He was quite prolific. Eventually, I began to notice that there was a certain sameness to his songs. He had developed a style and he always wrote in that style. Pretty soon I began to enjoy his work less. He was a master at rhyming; but even his rhymes got old to me after a while.

I suggested he consider some of the techniques I describe in my "Life Doesn't Rhyme" thread. He politely thanked me and then went into a long explanation of why he felt so confident in his current style. He has a right to be proud of his skill; but I believe he has fallen in love too soon.

He certainly has all the talent needed to reach his goal of becoming a successful songwriter. And if he gets lucky and meets the right people it may happen for him. But I fear that most of the professional music industry gatekeepers who hear his work will not see his potential, but see him for what he is -- a very talented amateur. His work sets him apart from his forum peers; but no professional cares about that comparison. It's far too early for him to get comfortable with his current abilities.

So what about you? Your work will be more enjoyable to everyone (including yourself) if you learn all you can about the craft, even if all you want to do is just write songs for yourself, your friends and family. Start with the basics and learn all you can. I have been writing songs a long, long time; but I hope I never decide to grow no mo'.

Keep writing,
Don
 
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Don

I do agree that folk tend to stop writing when a song is only half done. But...

Well intentioned though it is, I am not sure where you are going with this thread. Your slight frustration at the lack of response to various (mildly didactic) posts is apparent. In the friendliest and most supportive way, consider the following:

- There is a long list of threads where somebody posts something, people make suggestions, and a varying proportion of those suggestions are adopted. That reflects the fact that most people here do want to get - and then selectively absorb - constructive comments.

- Most of us are amateurs, aware of the formulae that apply to commercial songwriting but rather keen to avoid them. For the most part we are doing this for ourselves and the fun lies in working it out our own way.

- The membership of this songwriting forum is transient. Not sure what that tells us :)

- The comments you tend to make are generalised. As people here don't know you; you don't have a wealth of what the sociologists call social capital in this forum, you haven't for example posted a bunch of knockout songs or demonstrated the consistent input of, say, Aaron Cheney, it's hard for us to absorb your comments or put them into context.

Anyway, random thoughts rather than an all inclusive argument, with best wishes.

Garry
 
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didactic: fond of instructing or advising others: tending to give instruction or advice, even when it is not welcome or not needed.

Garry,

I must admit I had to look that one up. I almost wish I hadn't.

I understand my lack of "social capital" on this forum. In the extreme, I have had comments made to me on some forums that seem to suggest I was born on the day I joined the forum, and that my value as a member was in direct relation to my post count. I don't know how to remedy any of that.

I have often said that my posts will only be helpful to new writers and those who have not already established firm opinions about songwriting. My frustration is in not knowing if any of those people actually read and get anything useful from my posts.

Your candid comments shed a new light on the value of my time spent here. Thank you.

Don
 
Oh dear, I hope that didn't all come across the wrong way, that's the problem with these bbs thingies. I was honestly trying to explain / debate, nothing else.

Of course, you could post some music?.....
 
Garry Sharp said:
Oh dear, I hope that didn't all come across the wrong way, that's the problem with these bbs thingies. I was honestly trying to explain / debate, nothing else.

Of course, you could post some music?.....
Click to expand...

Maybe you could expain some other way for me to interpret your "mildly didactic" (is that like "mildly pregnant"?) comment. I took it, and your other comments, to mean that you feel you represent the views of most members; and as long as I post the way I do and say the things I say, then I should feel unwelcome here. I'd love to hear a different meaning to your post.

Don't be concerned about my thin-skinned reaction. You may have actually inspired me to write a new song. In fact, this song may be so important that it becomes my theme song. I already have a title and a rough draft of the chorus. Tell me what you think.

Didactic TaoManna Don

Yes, he's Didactic TaoManna Don
Here just to spoil our fun
With his outdated songwriting tools
And his old-fashioned songwriting rules
Be thankful we have only one
Didactic TaoManna Don

Keep writing (but hopefully better than that),
Don
 
Of course I don't claim to represent anybody but myself. Wish I hadn't bothered now.

And pregnancy is digital - binary - whereas didacticism is analogue - clearly one can be only mildly didactic.
 
I agree that many writers do allow themselves to think that what they have written is exactly what the song should say and accordingly they don't accept advice from others as well as they should (if at all).

I have found collaboration can be very difficult with these types of writers - and when I encounter this type of writer I very quickly figure out that any attempt of contributing is doomed to fail.

While I have on occasion allowed myself to decide that a song I have simply will not benefit from someone else's input, I try very hard to be open to suggestions - and have indeed re-written large parts of songs to accomodate ideas that I thought helped the song.

I have found that the re-writing process is truly where a song can go from average to good. While the 1st write may get a song 80% of the way, the subtle changes that occur during the re-writes is where the real craft takes place.

Writers that don't learn to embrace the re-write (those who fall in love too soon) are often doomed to be an average writer, with material that often does eventually have a "sameness" to it.
 
I attempted to send a private message to Dragon but his message box is full. Hopefully, he or some other moderator will see this.
---------------------------------------------------------

Attention Moderator:

My thread "Do We Fall In Love Too Soon" has not had the affect I intended. And it has now lost it's original focus and become embarrassing to me and others.

I would appreaciate it if you would delete that thread in its entirety.

Thank you,
Don
 
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