Do The Americas Really Have All The Best Wood?

[Middleman]

No monopoly on wood here. In fact some of the first electrics from Fender were Ash, Pine, Alder. Kind of junk industrial woods of the 50s. Not nearly furniture quality like Gibson guitars i.e. Mahogany, Maple.

What woods are in plentiful supply over in Europe?

 

[60's guy]

Small independent luthiers and any other "custom shop" guitar manufacturers who can afford to pay for premium tone woods will undoubtedly produce a superior product to mass produced guitars.

As a consumer, you simply need to determine for yourself if the price for a superior product is something you are willing to pay.

I just bought what may be considered a lower end Alvarez...the PF90-SC. I like Alvarez guitars very much. I have a DY55 Yarii (dreadnaught) that I purchased in 1981. It's a fantastic guitar that has held up for the 24 years and improved with age (as A Martin would do).

A great deal of a guitars ability to improve with age depends on two factors IMO. The number 1 reason being the quality of the tone wood. The number 2 reason being how that tone wood is finished and treated.

I have played many of the Taylor models. I almost sprang to spend the bucks, but I backed off because Taylor doesn't finish the wood in a manner to sufficiently allow for graceful aging. The Taylor guitars sound great, but I'm not so convinced that they will stand the test of time.

God, I want a Breedlove, or a Rushing, or one of many great guitars made by smaller known craftsmen who actually know what they are doing and pride themselves (and stand behind) the quality instruments they create.

I'd like to read Light's thoughts on this subject!

 

[juststartingout]

I don't think it has anything to do with the woods or the skills. It has to do with where the largest markets have been at for the past 50 years, which is the US market. Manufacturing costs are probably about 25% of the total costs. Marketting, materials, shipping, taxes, etc... are where the largest costs are. If you want to make more money, you move to cut those costs.

 

[jpw23]

I've built 3 of my guitars.......solid bodys made from hickory, walnut and maple, I could not however build these on a big enough scale to be profitable, they were very costly. Most of the cost was not in the wood but, in the tools to build them. But, they are sweet and I would not trade them for any guitar anywhere!

 

[Middleman]

I have an Alvarez from 1975. It has aged beautifully and has some of the last S. American Rosewood on its sides and back. I am not sure where the company stands today but in the late 70s they made excellent and inexpensive guitars.

The tone of a 30 year old Alavarez rivals most Martin guitars from that era.

 

[Light]

My favorite spruce is Sitka (Picea sitchensis), which is from the pacific northwest (Oregon, Washington, Western Canada, and Alaska). The other common spruce is Engelmann(Pica Engelmannii), which is more up in Canada and Alaska. Red Spruce (Picea rubens) comes from the Appalachian mountains, and used to be extremely common (Martin and Gibson used it in the 1930's). These days, the quality of Red Spruce sucks ass, but people still want it because of the 1930's Martin connection. European spruce (Picea Excelsa or Picea abies) is very traditional, but it is much harder to come by, and I for one find it has a limited dynamic range when compared to Sitka, so I am not wild about it.

Then there are other top woods such as Western Red Cedar (Thuja plicata), which is a North American wood, and Redwood (Sequoia Sempervirons), which is a Californian wood.

Traditionally, rosewood came from Brazil, and mahogany from Honduras. But you can't get them anymore. Brazilian rosewood (Dalbergia nigra)is on the CITES treaty, and Honduras mahogany (Sweitenia macrophylla) is, as near as anyone can tell, gone. You still see a lot of mahogany labeled as Honduran, but it is not. Most mahogany DOES still come from South America, however. That being said, Taylor is using Sapele (Entandrophragma cylindricum) for it's necks, backs, and sides; as are many other builders. Sapele is an African mahogany which, according to all reputable sources, is going to be available for a long time, and which is supposedly being harvested in a renewable manner. I have yet to try it for a neck, but I plan to; and I have used it quite a lot for backs and sides, where it is sonically and workability identical to Honduran, though it looks a lot prettier if you ask me (it has a really cool stripy grain to it.)

These days most rosewood comes from India (Dalbergia latifolia), or various places around the subcontinent there. There are also rosewoods from Madagascar (Dalbergia baroni) and Honduras (Dalbergia stevensonii). Then there are woods like Cocobolo (Dalbergia retusa) and African Blackwood (Dalbergia melanoxylon) which are true rosewoods (genus Dalbergia), but which have a trade name other than rosewood. Cocobolo and Honduran rosewood both come from Central America, while Madagascar rosewood comes from the obvious Madagascar; and African Blackwood from somewhere in Africa ( I can't find anyone to tell me where, though I haven't really tried). Then there are woods like Bubinga (Dedelotia africana) which while frequently called African rosewood, is not a rosewood at all; or Pau Ferro (Machaerium villosum), which is also known as Bolivian rosewood, but which is also not a real rosewood.

There are of course many other woods, such as the various maples (European, Acer pseudoplatanus; rock, Acer saccharum or Acer nigrum; or bigleaf, Acer macrophyllum); Koa (Acacia Koa), which is getting so outrageously expensive due to the fact it only grows in Hawaii; Australian Blackwood or Black Acacia (Acacia melanoxylon), which is a very close cousin to Koa, though it never has the kind of wild figure you can find sometimes in koa; Ebony of several varieties, Sri Lankan and Indian (Diospyrus ebenum) being most common, followed by African (Diospyrus crassiflora), and lastly my favorite, Macassar (Diospyrus celebica, among others), which is really just a trade name for many of the 435 species of ebony which happen to be stripy; Oregon Myrtle or California Laurel (Umbellularia california); Walnut (Juglans californica); or Spanish Cypress (Cupressus sempervirens), which is the primary back and sides woods for flamenco guitars.

So yeah, a lot of good wood comes from the Americas, but a lot of good wood comes from all over the place. Africa has a lot of rainforests, which is a good thing for interesting hardwoods. They can be a bitch to get out without destroying everything around them, but it can be done. And Asia has a lot of woods which have not even been tapped, really, for their possibilities.

And yes, I had to look up all the scientific names, but I had them readily at hand in the old LMI catalog/handbook (which they no longer put out, more's the pity, as it was one of the best resources a guitar builder could hope for).


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi


{Edited to fix my scientific fuckup. Thanks Middleman.}

 

[Middleman]

Red Spruce ( Thuja Plicata)

Not to be a nit nac but Thuja Plicata is actually Western Red Cedar. Red Spruce is (Picea rubens) and is indigenous to the North East United States.

I got my degree in Range Science and studied all of the trees in the Pacific NW.


...I see you got it right later in message.

 

[Light]

Not to be a nit nac but Thuja Plicata is actually Western Red Cedar. Red Spruce is (Picea rubens) and is indigenous to the North East United States.

I got my degree in Range Science and studied all of the trees in the Pacific NW.


...I see you got it right later in message.

DOH!!!!!!!!!!


I guess I was reading the wrong line in the book.

Not that anyone but you and me would have noticed, but hey, that's alright. Thanks for the correction.

I do TRY to get things right.



Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[zer0sig]

Or are you just a horrible bunch of snobs?

both.

the USA happens to have the kind of economy and disposable income to not only make guitars as finely as one wants, but to acquire the best woods from other areas of the globe.

as far as growing them, americans have loved good woods (in general) for ages, but great woods (for luthiery) grow on every continent that can grow trees. it just happens that americans are more often willing and able to blow their wad on ensuring that those woods go into guitars.

 

[foo]

All roads lead to Rome, eh?