DO quality cables really matter?

[EVT]

I'm not a saleswoman!

I am sorry if this isn't the right place to post this, but
I just wanted to mention that I was given 2 negative rep. From this same thread that wasn't signed by anyone. And one of them said ******sales. I don't sell anything and all I was doing was talking about cables which I have been using and saying that I really like them a lot.

evt
p.s. I've read a lot on this topic on this forum (search). There are a lot of threads about different cables being used and go more in depth about why certain cables are being used, or not being used.

 

[jayridge]

Cables are one of my biggest expenses so I've been lucky/unlucky enough to try a few different brands. Live Wire seems to be the least expensive brand that offers a lifetime guarantee and they have decent connectors. As for sound quality, the only places I've been able to notice a difference in any brand is:
1) from gtr with passive pickups to 1st buffered effect (use George L's here)
2) from power amp to monitor speakers (use heavy guage Home Depot lamp cord here... yeah, you heard me)

Cheap XLRM connectors are much more of a problem than cable as the pins can get pulled out by a tight XLRF. Cheap TRS connectors might also need some trimming of the plastic spacers beteween tip, ring and sleeve. I apply stabilant 22 to all connectors once I saw what it did for the card edges on my console.

Jay

 

[SonicAlbert]

I've had numerous HOSA cables go bad on me. Far more than any other brand I've bought. It's the molded plastic ends, they just don't hold up, even in back of the rack installs. At least that is my experience. And if you buy one of those HOSA snakes with the plastic ends and one or two cables goes bad, your whole snake is worthless.

I think the whole cable quality thing is cumulative. In some cases you might not be able to hear the difference between just one cable versus one cable (although I have). But once you have a setup that uses hundreds of cables the quality issue becomes greater.

 

[Dr ZEE]

In some cases you might not be able to hear the difference between just one cable versus one cable (although I have).

What difference exactly have you 'heard'? Any way to describe it? Also when you've heard 'the difference' what kind of material were you listening/recording/playing ? And what exactly (kind, brand, length) cables you've heard the difference with? Just an example or two would be nice to know.

But once you have a setup that uses hundreds of cables the quality issue becomes greater.

Well, I have 'a setup with allots of cables'... hmmmm not exactly hundreds, but I'd say - many dozens of cables...never have counted them ...maybe I should ... So I never had "cable quality" issues per-say, especially if you see quality as a 'reflection' of the price-tag.
I don't know... maybe I've been sort of lucky or something... but I never had a single dead/broken-by-itself or broken-by-time plastic plug. I had couple times bad metal ones thou, as I recall...heh heh ..., well, just open up and fix the damn thing.
Broken plastic plug? if happens - Yeah - can't fix it - true. You can cut it off and replace with cool metal one ... it will not match the rest and thus will look kinda ugly thou ... - not very impressive for a hi-end pro studio In Hi-end PRO studio everything must be "perfect" ... end-to-end , brand-to-brand ... no compromise - Take No Prisoners, and in Pro-Studios we have no time to waste dealing with "issues" ... every second counts and ticking as tick-$ tick-$ tick-$ tick-$ , but that's a totally different issue ... see?

/respects

 

[Herr Joachim]

Don't know if this is very helpful, but at least it's my experience with cables.
I replaced the stock rca-mini cable that came with my Echo soundcard with a canare cable that had some extra shielding, an rf-stopper and quality connectors.
To compare the sound i transfered the same signal (poorly recorded solo piano) from a roland harddisc recorder to nuendo. The wavesignals looked different,
generally the decay of notes stopped slightly shorter with the new cable. The new cable gave a little more woody tone, and was more open in the high treble.
A friend of mine and i have the same headphones, Grado sr80. When his cable went bad, he replaced it with a pure silver cable. A/B'ing the headphones showed remarkable differences. Very different imaging, more fluid sound overall, smoother highs, more defined bass. Still my cans sound warmer and more intimate, though with peaky treble and a bit congested soundstage. Both cables do nothing but transferring signal from a to b, so i'd say quality cables make a noticable difference in all audio purposes.

 

[SonicAlbert]

Those silver cables are mucho expensive. Wish I could afford to wire my studio with them.

I don't necessarily see a direct cost-to-quality ratio, as I make many of my own cables and can therefore use high quality cable at quite low cost. These days, the pretty much the only cables I don't make for myself are snakes, because the cost of buying ready-made is really not that different than making my own.

As far as the sound difference, that's pretty subjective and it's always hard to write about sound in words. But I would say that better cables can help make the sound more present and real. It really depends on the application though. I also think that in some circumstances just having shorter cables can make a difference.

One time when I really heard a huge difference was when a bass player friend of mine asked me to do a blind a/b listening test on a couple of cables he was using. One was just a plain old budget cable he'd been using for years, and the other was a shorter Monster cable. The difference was dramatic. The Monster cable made the other one sound like garbage--thin and cloudy. With the Monster cable the tone was big, fat and present. I think in that case it was as much the fact that it was shorter as much as it was better quality, but the difference was clear.

 

[Herr Joachim]

Homegrownaudio.com sells bulk silver wire for ~$1.80 per foot if you buy 100ft or more. link.
I have no idea what quantity would be needed to wire an entire studio, so perhaps it'd turn out rather expensive.
Using short cables like you said is a good thing.
Currently i use a 20ft mic cable between a mic power supply and preamp. Just ordered a good 1ft cable to replace it.
I don't expect miracles, but at least a little relief from chaos.

 

[dgatwood]

2) from power amp to monitor speakers (use heavy guage Home Depot lamp cord here... yeah, you heard me)

I personally prefer the cables my father made for an electronic music tour a couple of decades ago.... Heavy duty extension cord wire... maybe 10 AWG or so.... Man, talk about negligible power loss across long runs....

Cheap XLRM connectors are much more of a problem than cable as the pins can get pulled out by a tight XLRF. Cheap TRS connectors might also need some trimming of the plastic spacers beteween tip, ring and sleeve. I apply stabilant 22 to all connectors once I saw what it did for the card edges on my console.

Yikes. What kind of cheap XLRM connectors are these? Don't they have a set screw holding the pin block in place? Or do you mean that the pins get ripped from the plastic!?! (I've only had that happen once, while soldering to the pins, from overheating....)

 

[SonicAlbert]

Thanks for that link, I've bookmarked it.

Silver cable is the kind of thing that I would use only in the most critical places first, then gradually build out from there. Like the cabling from the DAW to the monitors, to and from my main AD/DA converters, that kind of thing.

 

[dgatwood]

soooo? Did anyone?!!!!!!!!!!! And I mean REALLY DID notice it...without 'theoretical bullsh*ting' about it, but simply actually used cheap cables, then used expansive cables (A/B-ed it) and said to him/herself: "WOW! what a difference! My God! Holly crap!".... or maybe somebody actually did some sophisticated lab/test work on cheap vs. expansive cables???? hmmmmm

Yup. The difference between a cheap 22 AWG speaker cable and an expensive 10 AWG speaker cable is night and day.

Outside of power cords (voltage drop over a few hundred feet) and speaker cables (same deal)... I've had lots of reliability problems at the connectors from some cheap cables. I've also had bad hum problems with cheap unbalanced audio cables with plastic-backed connectors.

Apart from flat out defectively-designed cables and cables whose current carrying capacity wasn't up to the task, though, no, I've never been able to hear any difference between any moderately decent cable and a high end cable. Now with higher frequency signals like analog video, I've been able to see variations in the amount of degradation across relatively long runs, but that's probably not what you were asking about....

 

[altitude909]

Cable quality is audible (especially for longer cables). The way they rate audio cables is by capacitence/foot. The lower the better since a long poor quality cable will act as a filter and degrade the audio.

That being said, I always just make my own. I think retial audio cables are the biggest scam in the world... The fact is, nothing out there will last a lifetime (Monster knows damn well that no one is going to take them up on the lifetime warrenty, it just looks good on paper). Connectors will oxidize no matter what and the quality of the conductors is all that you should be interested in. You can get a 100' spool of excellent quality cable for under $100 and high quality Neutrik TRS ends for about $1.79 each so do the math.

 

[Dr ZEE]

As far as the sound difference, that's pretty subjective and it's always hard to write about sound in words.

that's true

...I would say that better cables can help make the sound more present and real..

Yep. But that's exactly kind of "argument" which never cut through a guy's (like myself) brain-bone... . I just don't buy it as a 'reason'. "better cable can help" - meaning , that it may or may not help ... right? "Sound more present" - what does this mean? "Sound more real" - arghhhhh, heh heh , c'mon now ...
But, then again, that is all due to the fact that it IS hard to describe some gentle details in sound differences mixed with subjectivity factor.

Now, you see, I am trying to bring the "conversation" closer as possible to practicality of it. In general, as I understand, we are talking here not about some extreme situations (very long cables, very heavy (hundreds of cables) gabling) and we are not talking here about some really bad and defective products. I mean, sure, if you buy a cable (or component/adaptor etc) at Radio Shack the chances are, that it may not even fit the jack (yeah, many of them just not up to specs)... hah hah, no joking
So, at home-studio environment, as I imagine cable length is mostly 6-10ft ...or even shorter. Well, some guys sure may need some longer mic cables and maybe longer instrument cables.
So, say 6-10 ft - that's what we are dealing here with for the most.
If you really can hear the difference between 8ft HOSA snake and , let's say ProCo ... well, then I'd say, you've got some ear. I don't hear any noticable difference. I've got couple HOSA snakes and bunch of ProCo(s) ...vary length(s) ... well, maybe I never paid any close attention...hmmmmm that's maybe the case, I guess.

One time when I really heard a huge difference was when a bass player friend of mine asked me to do a blind a/b listening test on a couple of cables he was using. One was just a plain old budget cable he'd been using for years, and the other was a shorter Monster cable. The difference was dramatic. The Monster cable made the other one sound like garbage--thin and cloudy. With the Monster cable the tone was big, fat and present. I think in that case it was as much the fact that it was shorter as much as it was better quality, but the difference was clear.

well, this kind of makes me wonder. Maybe I should try something and really A/B-it . Get a new 24K Gold Monster Rock Cable as a X-mass gift for my Texas Special Babe and replace that old and ugly Fender cable. If I don't hear any difference, then - well, I will not hold it against you, man , I'll just pass the blame on to my ears' inferiority and let the Lady keep the gold, it'll look great on Her, and even thou there'll be no practical sense - but, what the heck - what ever makes the Woman Happy - that's a good thing! - That is the right thing to do

/respects

 

[Nosferous]

I've also heard george L's were good too.
evt

I had never heard of George L's 'til about a week ago at my friends studio, I was getting some files from them for remixing and my friend knew I'd wanna jam so he threw me a mogami cable- I'd never played a mogami cable either (sad me I know) and I mentioned how good I heard they were. Then he pulled out some George L's.

So while I was copying I got to A-B-C Mogami, George L's and Monster.
I started with what him and someone else I know (which is kind of my studio world mentor in a way) considered the best. 'Cause I can notice a degrade in quality better than upgrading...most people it's that case.

Monster was eh, Mogami's sounded good but nothing special. But the George L's had something to them. Really if I could afford to put my studio money in the purely the cable fund mostly all my cables would be George L's right now.

I think it's the first time I've REALLY noticed an audio difference via-cable.

I was A-B-Cing through a mesa triaxis rack to mesa and marshall cab, mesa triple rect half stack, Marshall combo, Line6 Spider and also tried through a PODxt. And I came out with the George L's sounding best in all instances. Really, it's changed my mind on actually thinking of really buying quality cables.

Thumbs up for George L's!

 

[dgatwood]

Now, you see, I am trying to bring the "conversation" closer as possible to practicality of it. In general, as I understand, we are talking here not about some extreme situations (very long cables, very heavy (hundreds of cables) gabling) and we are not talking here about some really bad and defective products. I mean, sure, if you buy a cable (or component/adaptor etc) at Radio Shack the chances are, that it may not even fit the jack (yeah, many of them just not up to specs)... hah hah, no joking

I've never had any problems with cables from Radio Shack. The ones I've bought there have usually been significantly higher quality and heavier duty than most of the cables I find for sale in stores. They're not the uber-heavy-duty stuff you'd buy at a music store, mind you, but they're still generally pretty good. (For the prices they charge, they'd better be.... My lord, they overprice their cables and adapters....)

No, the crap cables are the ones you can buy at Fry's electronics, Wal Mart, Target, KMart, Worst Buy, Circuit S**tty, etc.

 

[Dr ZEE]

I've never had any problems with cables from Radio Shack..

hmmmmmmmmmm. Yeah, well, actually I don't recall myself buying cables at R-Sh (maybe couple times ...some speaker cables for home-stereo and stuff like that), so I can't really say anything from my experience, but I did have pretty bad experience buying some parts from Radio Shack ... I had some really bad connectors / plugs ... I remeber I've god some RCA-to-1/4" adaptors there and ..hah hah - the RCA side/plug had slightly larger sleeve than it should be...so did not seeat weel on RCA jacks, but 1/4 jack-sides of the adaptors were totally f*cked up - you try to plug 1/4" and it just keeps jumping out ... it's like not deep enough ... rggggggggg
However I must admit I do go to R-Shack from time to time when ever I need something like right-now! ... I mean some general purpose stuff and where the specifications don't matter ... like I just got two new soldering and desoldering guns there... somethin'like 10buck each and they work great . I've got some nice mini-switches there as well...well some other stuff...

...

No, the crap cables are the ones you can buy at Fry's electronics, Wal Mart, Target, KMart, Worst Buy, Circuit S**tty, etc.

well, yeah

 

[dgatwood]

hmmmmmmmmmm. Yeah, well, actually I don't recall myself buying cables at R-Sh (maybe couple times ...some speaker cables for home-stereo and stuff like that), so I can't really say anything from my experience, but I did have pretty bad experience buying some parts from Radio Shack ... I had some really bad connectors / plugs ... I remeber I've god some RCA-to-1/4" adaptors there and ..hah hah - the RCA side/plug had slightly larger sleeve than it should be...so did not seeat weel on RCA jacks, but 1/4 jack-sides of the adaptors were totally f*cked up - you try to plug 1/4" and it just keeps jumping out ... it's like not deep enough ... rggggggggg

I remember some all-silver ones from Radio Shack (I think) back a couple of decades ago that had problems with the metal prongs being too far out and the plug actually having about 1/8" of play where you could slide it in and out. I remember some others that had grey plastic that behaved in the way you mention IIRC.

IMHO, 1/4" female to RCA male adapters are problematic by their very nature. I have never seen one from any company that worked acceptably. General rule is that if an adapter has to stick more than 1/2" out of a jack, it will be prone to breakage and probably won't be reliable no matter what you do, so in those cases, it's generally better to use a short pigtail.

 

[Dr ZEE]

IMHO, (...) female to (...) male adapters are problematic by their very nature.

Huh!... it DOES sound like pretty unnatural adaptation LOL. It's hard to disagree with such statement, ....heh heh

 

[jayridge]

Yikes. What kind of cheap XLRM connectors are these? Don't they have a set screw holding the pin block in place? Or do you mean that the pins get ripped from the plastic!?! (I've only had that happen once, while soldering to the pins, from overheating....)

Yep. I've had the pins get ripped from the plastic twice; these are long since gone so I dont remember the brand. I pretty much stick to nuetrick now.

Jay

 

[talontsiawd]

I stumble on this thread, don't post here much but i'm interested in making my own cables. I have alot of experience doing wiring on cars so i figure making cables would be pretty simple compared to soldering under dash boards and whatnot. I tried to search but so many people seem to make their own cables that I didn't find much in the way of actual information. Maybe i just don't know where to search. What cable do you recommend and what brand connectors. Right now i'm using alot of hosa cables among some other brands because they are readily available when i need them. I can defineatly vouch for them crapping out on you, even in a home studio environment where they don't move much. I've had some that have lasted forever and some that only last accouple of months. They are cheap enough to replace but as my equipment has expanded, it's become more of a pain to get to. I'm not looking for top quality cables and connectors, just something that is high quality and a good bang for the buck. My equipment doesn't really justify breaking the bank on cables, i even have a few :gasp: behringer pieces . I like the idea of being able to have custom length cable also because that will clean things up. I need mostly trs connectors so my first batch will probably just be trs cables and then go from there. Any recommedatons would be great. Sorry for the long winded post, and i know it's come up before, i just couldn't find much.

 

[fiveironguy]

I get all the cables for my studio and gear from www.hotwiredcables.com he sells his stuff on ebay, its not super cheap or super steap, but man did i ever notice a difference going from the mid grade cables i was usin before, check em out.