Do pro's do 2 takes?

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chamelious

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I've always tracked drums for my bands EP's at a local studio, in a rush, as this is the only part we pay for. MY brothers the drummer and generally he's very good so each song is either a 1 taker, or sometimes 2 if theres a place in the song where theres zero drums to go from. I wondered how rock/metal bands record songs, especially when theres no gaps in a song. 1 take? Or do they cut takes together?
 
Does it really matter? :confused:

I heard that Lars did the entire "Black Album" in pieces. To me that's pretty gay, but whatever.
 
Greg_L said:
Does it really matter? :confused:

I heard that Lars did the entire "Black Album" in pieces. To me that's pretty gay, but whatever.
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Ummm, thanks? It matters to me or i wouldn't have asked. For your edification heres why. My band will be recording an album soon and we'll have to pay for studio time ourselves. We're very poor, we need the quickest route where ever possible.

Why is it gay? Every recording I've ever done has been done in pieces. To capture the best possible performance. I assume your view is one of "if you can't do it live you shouldn't do it in the studio", its the only reason i can think of that you'd think this is gay. If this is the case, i disagree and consider the studio to be a separate world.
 
chamelious said:
Ummm, thanks? It matters to me or i wouldn't have asked. For your edification heres why. My band will be recording an album soon and we'll have to pay for studio time ourselves. We're very poor, we need the quickest route where ever possible.

Why is it gay? Every recording I've ever done has been done in pieces. To capture the best possible performance. I assume your view is one of "if you can't do it live you shouldn't do it in the studio", its the only reason i can think of that you'd think this is gay. If this is the case, i disagree and consider the studio to be a separate world.
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There are two very distinct schools of thought about this and they will never agree with each other. I belong to the "old school" which recorded in "live sessions" and then would isolate individual players, adjust the EQ to optimize the sound and try to get rid of any disturbing ambient noise and then do a final mix. But it is still "the" performance done by that group of musicians at that time,\.
The new school is to do multi track overdubbing where the musicians don't have to be together at all and sometimes don't even meet each other. The drum tracks are laid down first to a click with a guitar or keyboard scratch track and then the other musicians add their tracks (sometimes bits and pieces at a time. Then the whole thing is gone over enhanced, had electronics added to it and all sorts of "studio alchemy" and then mixed to a final.
The second way honors "The Music" as the only entity, putting the performance as secondary and often a little bit sterile.
The first way also honors the music, but it also honors and respects the musicians and THE PERFORMANCE (however that performance may be),
I can understand the want for the multitrack overdub method when all you are concerned about is the music product, but I personally prefer the "live session" recordings and I will buy a live performance album before I by a studio creation.
It comes down to a matter of taste.......... and also generation.
 
chamelious said:
Ummm, thanks? It matters to me or i wouldn't have asked. For your edification heres why. My band will be recording an album soon and we'll have to pay for studio time ourselves. We're very poor, we need the quickest route where ever possible.
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Are you just tracking the drums in the studio?

If no, then practice your asses off and go in there tight enough that you can all lay down a performance you're happy with in a single take. Maybe go back and double your guitars, and do the vocals as a seperate take for isolation, but the fewer times you have to play through a five minute song, the better.

If yes, and if you're just asking, "if there's a break in a song, should we record before the break and after the break seperately?" well, I'm kind of with Greg. It doesn't really matter. Personally, I'd just play to a click track and use that to keep everyone synched getting ready to come back in, but whatever your preference is, really.

If you're just asking, "do most pros play a drum performance right on the first try, or do they have to go back and try again sometimes?" well, if you want to keep the cost down in the studio, then obviously the fewer takes you have to do, the cheaper your hourly bill will be.

I guess I don't really understand the question either, because I can't see how it matters any more than in that you have to spend longer/pay more if you need to go back and try a second take.
 
Man, did Lars all of a sudden suck after the 80's or something? All that shit was done live, sure maybe multiple takes but it wasn't spliced together, with the exception of Dyer's Eve.
 
In a perfect world we'd do everything in 1 take...

I did a CD a few years ago when a friend was staying at my house. We recorded and mixed it in 30 days, completely done, which compared to other projects I've done was fast.

I noticed that the less time from beginning to end the better the songs went together and it felt like a cohesive project.

When the recording goes over several weeks and that turns into months and everything is pieced together it can end up having an uncomfortable feel to it.
 
If there is a break in the song where there is no drums, there is absolutely no difference. It's two chunks of drums whether you see it that way or not.
 
Thanks guys, im not new to recording, and am aware of the 2 schools of thought. i Just wondered what happened with big bands on big budgets recording drums. I don't work with musicians good enough to make a decent recording in one take so a live take isnt an option for me.
 
There are hundreds of different ways to do it. There is a lot of metal stuff that is really just programmed and never actually played. There are some things that have a lot of drum punch-ins. I worked on an album where the drummer was made to play the hi hat, then play the snare, then play the kick all seperately. For the most part, it doesn't matter how it gets done.

As for the Lars black album thing, he played the songs a couple dozen times adlibing against a click. Then they took the best ideas/performances and spliced them together. People have been doing this with guitar solos for as long as I can remember.

You can be as rehearsed as possible, but when the producer tells you to play something else, how practiced will you be then?
 
chamelious said:
Thanks guys, im not new to recording, and am aware of the 2 schools of thought. i Just wondered what happened with big bands on big budgets recording drums. I don't work with musicians good enough to make a decent recording in one take so a live take isnt an option for me.
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Maybe yall should be practicing instead of recording. :rolleyes:
 
Rimshot said:
OUCH ! that's cold.
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Hey facts is facts.

I'm not a one-take only nazi, but damn, if you suck so bad individually and as a band that you can't play tight through one freaking song, then you really shouldn't be recording jack shit and need to fucking practice more. It's common sense.
 
Greg_L said:
Hey facts is facts.

I'm not a one-take only nazi, but damn, if you suck so bad individually and as a band that you can't play tight through one freaking song, then you really shouldn't be recording jack shit and need to fucking practice more. It's common sense.
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Tight is tight. IMO theres a difference between performance tight and recorded you're going to be hearing this a million times tight.
 
chamelious said:
Tight is tight. IMO theres a difference between performance tight and recorded you're going to be hearing this a million times tight.
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You lose at both because your budget is tight.

Tight budget = You better be able to knock it out live and have it be good.


Besides, what is this for? What good is having a demo when you suck shit live? :rolleyes:
 
Try it live. If you need to put parts together you can. Greg is right again. If you can't do it in one take in the recording studio how can you do it live? Just something to think about.
 
He's not right, he's just being pedantic.


Greg_L said:
Besides, what is this for? What good is having a demo when you suck shit live? :rolleyes:
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And what on earth is this about? You know nothing about me but assume i can't play music live because im asking questions about recording using more than 1 take? And as i said. We already have a "demo", i'm thinking about when its time to do an album.

It seems to be difficult to ask a question on this board without being jumped on. I don't see how all this "you need to practise more" is constructive at all. I wasn't even talking about me, i was talking about my bands drummer, who's my brother and probably the most consistant musician i know.
 
chamelious said:
He's not right, he's just being pedantic.




And what on earth is this about? You know nothing about me but assume i can't play music live because im asking questions about recording using more than 1 take? And as i said. We already have a "demo", i'm thinking about when its time to do an album.

It seems to be difficult to ask a question on this board without being jumped on. I don't see how all this "you need to practise more" is constructive at all. I wasn't even talking about me, i was talking about my bands drummer, who's my brother and probably the most consistant musician i know.
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Lol. Calm down dude. Or dudette, whatever you are. No one's jumping on anyone. You said yourself your band sucks. You asked a question that doesn't have an answer, so I took it a step further. All bands do their thing differently. It's REALLY fucking simple. Here's the scenarios:

A) You have money and play very well - Take all the time you want, however you want.

B) You have money and suck - Take all the time you want, because you're gonna need it

C) You have little money, but play very well - Bang it out live and get the fuck out on the cheap.

D) You have little money and suck - Keep your ass at home and practice until you can achieve A, B, or C
 
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