Do I Need Pro Tools To Be Taken Seriously?

  • Thread starter Thread starter mystasynasta
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farview.

Not to hijack this thread with a completely off topic question but I gotta ask this question to somebody and frankly, you are the only person on the internet I'm aware of who MIGHT be able to answer it.

I realize you worked on KMD amps (presumably the xv100sd head) ages ago and you might not remember technical stuff about the amp but I need to ask:

I recently bought one of those. I'm a newb and dont know much about amps technically but I notice it has five 12ax7 tube sockets. 3 on the left and 2 on the right. (looking at it from behind). Are all of them preamp tubes or is one for the reverb or some other thing or what? Should I use 12ax7's in all those? (mine has no tubes right now). Which one is "v1, v2 etc"?(when looking at it from the back).

Also, do you remember what that "hum balance" knob on the back does? never saw one of those before. I would imagine it has something to do with hum???

And do you remember what the plate voltage on that amp generally runs?

Disregard if it was too long ago to remember. I dont remember crap from 20 years ago.
One 12ax7 was the phase splitter, one was for the reverb and the other three were preamp tubes. If I remember correctly, one was for the 'clean' channel and the other two for the distortion channel.

You need to put 12ax7's in all those sockets and 6550's or kt88's in the power tube sockets.

I have no idea what the plate voltage should be. Check the tube specs, KMD wasn't known for taking design chances.

That amp had kind of a Marshally sound to it. At least until you stuck it next to a real Marshall.

The hum balance control was used to dial out the hum, just twist it until the amp is its quietest.

BTW, that was the good KMD amp. That doesn't say much.
 
One 12ax7 was the phase splitter, one was for the reverb and the other three were preamp tubes. If I remember correctly, one was for the 'clean' channel and the other two for the distortion channel.

You need to put 12ax7's in all those sockets and 6550's or kt88's in the power tube sockets.

I have no idea what the plate voltage should be. Check the tube specs, KMD wasn't known for taking design chances.

That amp had kind of a Marshally sound to it. At least until you stuck it next to a real Marshall.

The hum balance control was used to dial out the hum, just twist it until the amp is its quietest.

BTW, that was the good KMD amp. That doesn't say much.


thanks for the info!
There is so little info about this or any kmd amp other than the info in their promotional catalog that somebody put online.
Even an edition of the Blue Book says "any information on KMD amps would be appreciated".

I haven't had a chance to hear the amp yet since the guy who sold it to me had to keep his expensive NOS tubes. I figured for $200US I couldnt go wrong for my purposes.
Its going to be used to power a mesa triaxis preamp until I get a vht or mesa power amp.

Anyway! thanks again. :)
 
I would try going in the effects loop return. The clean channel never really was clean.

These amps lived and died before the internet. For the most part, they weren't very good. That's why there is no information on them, no one cares and most of the amps didn't survive 7 years much less 20.

KMD was part of Kaman Aerospace. It wasn't under the Kaman music division, which is where people would assume to look for info.
 
I think that, for the most part, it probably is a good idea to go the digidesign route if you want to be taken seriously.

Obviously, while your work should be able to speak for itself, the grave yards are full of those who were very talented and did good work, but never amounted to much in life. In this particular business, perception is reality. You will, very often, be evaluated by aesthetics; the look and comfort factor of your space, your personality and professionalism ... and your equipment list.

It all gets thrown in to one big pile, and unfortunately, digidesign have managed to get a slice of that pile by psychologically embedding their name in to the industry as being some sort of a "standard." So the fact remains that there is at least a small amount of validity to the concerns you're posing. Enough to at least make it a consideration when deciding what tools or platform you plan on using.

.


fuckin bollox
 
nope...never...absolutely not... hardly... aka...in the greed driven wet dreams of the people over at avid.

Pro tools, is starting to fall a bit behind other software in most ways, exept for intuitive waveform editing in the timeline (really one of the only things that it still has over other software).. many people use other software professionally.. I use Logic Pro and LOVE it.

the idea that pro tools is the end all be all DAW is just marketing, that people fall for and then want to think they know what they're talking about by repeating it.


so the answer to the question is...no... and in case I dind't make my point...the answer is absolutely not...never...not in a million years... in their dreams... when pigs f...well you get the point.
 
Climb off the horns of this dilemma & get back to recording.
 
Hi there,

I´ve been visiting many mixing mastering recording sites in the internet. What really upset me was that many of them didn´t provide any soundfiles for listening of the mixes or whatever they did. They just had huge lists of highend equipment tons of mics most availlible software plugins etc.... Some had soundfiles, but they weren´t extraordinary special , even if they had the best availlable equipment ! Some even provided worse stuff than what i´ve heard from some homestudios or people from this site !!!

Yeah its like in the advertising , if you got the good shit your sound gets fantastic ---- NOnono

I heard a few recordings from people just using a 4 track tape recorder a few midleclass mics and a good sounding performance. The sound was great , cause everybody knew his job and how to work with things !!!
Its not the gear its the people that use it.
MAN every little kid has better stuff in his room than recordingstudios had 50 years ago, but they dont know shit about using it :-)

Thats the most important thing ---- KNOW YOUR EQUIPMENT YOU HAVE AND HOW TO USE IT !!!
In other words "size doesn´t matter" :-)

Sure you won´t get the hell of a recording with REALLY shitty stuff ,but you dont need the high end of the high end !

Dirk
 
I would actually take someone less seriously if they got ProTools for the sole purpose of being taken seriously. And that would be the sole purpose of it if they had already found that they work better with other software.

Personally I prefer software that isn't, off the shelf, purposely packed with limitations that you have to pay money to 'unlimit'.

I was always under the impression that, aside from your own personal preferences and working processes, software is irrelevant to the overall sound if your hardware and your ears are good. I'm also pretty sure that there is better hardware out there than digi's stuff.

At the end of the day, with regards to being taken seriously...The proof is in the pudding. If someone shows me a good sounding recording that they did in something really basic, like an freebie magazine coverdisk copy of Sonic Foundry's Acid music from 7 years ago, or something like that. I would take them a little more seriously than someone who produced the same in ProTools. Purely because the guy would have shown me that he can forge awesomeness out of something very basic.
 
I agree with most of you guys. The reason I don't have pro tools to begin with was the limitations. Digidesign kind of disgusts me. The make a program that only works with THEIR hardware. Good in the sense of business, bad for the consumer. I think that the reason why Pro Tools became the industry standard was largely because it was a one-stop-shop. You could get everything you needed all at once and you know that their won't be any stability problems or issues between the program and hardware and that's what studios needed. So Pro Tools became standard because they capitalized on this idea and were (from my understanding) the first ones to do it. The program does have some features in it that I wish Steinberg would implement into their software but for the most part Cubase and Sonar (and probably several other programs which I don't have enough experience with) have a much better user interface, no limits, and a lot more features that make everyday use much more enjoyable. I wish Cubase had the list of tracks on the side like PT that allowed you to hide tracks to make it a little easier to hide/show certain tracks. I also wish you had the ability to have a list of different linked tracks instead of having to unlink them to relink other tracks. I am really impressed with Cubase 4 though and will be upgrading soon. Until I really see a reason to completely switch to Pro Tools I'm I'll buy LE for compatibility/learning reasons and stick to Cubase who always seems to stay ahead of the competition to me.

Thanks for all the replies!
 
A nice tool, to be sure, BUT....... still the beneficiary of clever marketing.

Dont give in to marketing glamour....


With all due respect. I don't usually contribute to these types of merri-go-round discussions but at this point I have the time and am compelled. That and I need to shut off the boozy clown music that seems to play in my head when I read some of this stuff.

Someone PLEASE show me, tangibly show me this clever marketing scam that SO many here claim Digidesign has crafted and launched against the unsuspecting masses.

Is it subliminal?? Is there something in their trade magazine adds that lures people in like scientology??

PLEASE point to it. Show me. Give me a real world example of that infamous Digi marketing hype that creates drooling zombies to stupid to choose a "real" DAW. I dunno do they advertise any differently than say Sonar, Logic or DP??


Sorry but it's an absolute absurdity to keep referring to Digidesigns marketing "ploy" as if those of you who have chosen NOT to use Pro Tools have somehow intellectually risen above the poor schumks that are to stupid to recognize marketing hype.

There are hundreds if not thousands of folks here in Hollywood making a VERY lucrative living using Pro Tools. They are among the best and brightest, highly educated people in this industry that not to mention this is amongst the most competitive and cut throat business's on Earth. There is a REASON they choose Pro Tools and I can assure you beyond ANY shadow of ANY doubt it doesn't have anything to do with marketing. For SO many of these folks if there was a better solution you can bet your last dollar they'd have it.

I don't know the answer to the original posters question.....research and learn and use of course what works best for you. Pro Tools, Cubase, Logic...they're all more capable than most can take advantage of.

I do know that the reason Pro Tools is positioned in the market as it is has to do with end users compatibility and an extremely competitive product.

The rest is just web forum wives tales bull crap.
 
There are hundreds if not thousands of folks here in Hollywood making a VERY lucrative living using Pro Tools. They are among the best and brightest, highly educated people in this industry that not to mention this is amongst the most competitive and cut throat business's on Earth. There is a REASON they choose Pro Tools and I can assure you beyond ANY shadow of ANY doubt it doesn't have anything to do with marketing.
It has to do with the fact that Protools was first. Anyone that has been using a DAW for over 10 years had to have been using Protools. All of the places where someone would go to learn production (as of 5 years ago) was using Protools. The hardware associated with the program is too big of an investment to just toss aside so the upgrade path remains closed.

It's not that they advertise more or better than anyone else, they are just so entrenched in the industry mostly because they were first.
 
Do you need ProTools to be taken seriously?

Absolutely not - but you better believe you will need to be able to explain (to even the dumbest of creatures) why "ProTools" is not your choice of professional tools...which is easy enough.

My explanation usually goes like this "The only ProTools software that's nice is ProTools HD. When I first started, I could not afford such a system - so I settled on Cubase, after free software just wasn't cutting it any longer. Eventually I upgraded to Nuendo, for various reasons, which is what I use today. I used to work in a studio with an HD setup - and there's nothing magical that it can do that Cubase can't. In fact, I could buy some digi hardware and hang up my protools sign on the wall so I could be part of the protools club and avoid this conversation - but I would still work in Nuendo when nobody was looking, because I can get the same results in less time - which you're paying for."

That usually settles the issue for me, heh...
 
Do you need ProTools to be taken seriously?

Absolutely not - but you better believe you will need to be able to explain (to even the dumbest of creatures) why "ProTools" is not your choice of professional tools...which is easy enough.

My explanation usually goes like this "The only ProTools software that's nice is ProTools HD. When I first started, I could not afford such a system - so I settled on Cubase, after free software just wasn't cutting it any longer. Eventually I upgraded to Nuendo, for various reasons, which is what I use today. I used to work in a studio with an HD setup - and there's nothing magical that it can do that Cubase can't. In fact, I could buy some digi hardware and hang up my protools sign on the wall so I could be part of the protools club and avoid this conversation - but I would still work in Nuendo when nobody was looking, because I can get the same results in less time - which you're paying for."

That usually settles the issue for me, heh...

That's usually how I explain it to customers. I tell them that Pro Tools would actually slow me down and they would be restricted unless they wanted me to up my prices to afford something that will not better the sound of their music in any way. They usually shut up. Except this one guy that swore that pro tools sounded way better then anything. He said his instruments sounded way thicker than any other program. I asked him about the 32 track limit and he said because pro tools sounded so good he didnt need any stacks on anything so it wasn't a problem. He obviously didn't know enough about digital audio to know that the sound would be handled by preamps, mics, and ad/da cards so I stopped arguing with him. He also said Macs sound better then pc (I had to laugh). But as sad as it is, this is part of the reason of getting it. People that don't know any better think it sounds better which lures customers in. Digidesign really doesn't do any marketing scams or anything. Their stuff just looks really nice and people refer to it as the industry standard because they put it in a convenient package. Not to mention they were the first to do it.
 
Once again: Digi hardware can be used with most any software. ProTools software can be used only on Digi hardware.

I don't see the problem with a company designing software to run exclusively on their hardware. This ensures extreme compatibility, and the company can spend their resources on troubleshooting a limited number of systems. The operation of PT 7.3 on my Digi 002R is so smooth, never an issue.

That kind of compatibility is worth money to many people. When you have customers with household names paying a fortune for recording sessions, you need something that is going to work, no questions asked. So one company making both the hardware and software can be a very good thing.

Apple does that of course, and the computers they make are very smooth, and in my experience trouble free.
 
I don't see the problem with a company designing software to run exclusively on their hardware.
It's not a problem, but it is part of the marketing strategy. There is nothing wrong with what they are doing. They have successfully positioned themselves as the de-facto standard DAW. That's very smart.

People who don't use Protools sometimes go a bit too far trying to prove their point that Cubase SX, Sonar, etc... is not a step down from Protools.

There are really only a couple minor things that are different between all the top end DAWs, most of that has to do with the user interface and workflow.
 
It has to do with the fact that Protools was first. Anyone that has been using a DAW for over 10 years had to have been using Protools. All of the places where someone would go to learn production (as of 5 years ago) was using Protools. The hardware associated with the program is too big of an investment to just toss aside so the upgrade path remains closed.

I'm sorry and again with respect that's just rubbish. The television and film industry is full of both ginormous budgets and VERY bright people. The cost of replacing a Digi 192 for another converter and software for multiple rooms is equivalent to a morning breakfast tab for many production facilities.

Again IF there was a better choice of hardware/software available to the movers and shakers of this industry NO MATTER THE COST and certainly NO MATTER THE HISTORY OF USING IT I guarantee those folks have the smarts and the budget and the competitive spirit to rush out and buy it. After all their livelihood depends on it.


As I've said so many times Cubase, Logic, Sonar, DP, they're all so much more capable than most have the talent to throw at them. By all means use what works... but fueling the fires of web fodder is good for no one.
 
I have been a user of several recording programs but finally settled on Cubase. I love it and I don't want to switch. However, the standard is Pro Tools. I decided that LE or MP would be a waste of money with 32 track limits, hardware limitations and several other limits that they have put on it. As of now, If I were to send a track off to a larger studio I would just export as an OMF file (which does not keep my mix). I am not sure about LE but I know that the MP version didn't even support OMF import when I tried. I know Cubase to a "t" so I am very quick and productive in it. I can give the artist what they are looking for extremely quickly. The question I have is: Do I need Pro Tools to be taken seriously by artists and other studios or can I stick to Cubase?

Sorry if this subject has been covered but the search function won't work for me today...

Thanks!

YES!





NOT!!
CUbase SX is fekin brilliant, I love it.

Eck
 
I'm sorry and again with respect that's just rubbish. The television and film industry is full of both ginormous budgets and VERY bright people. The cost of replacing a Digi 192 for another converter and software for multiple rooms is equivalent to a morning breakfast tab for many production facilities.

Again IF there was a better choice of hardware/software available to the movers and shakers of this industry NO MATTER THE COST and certainly NO MATTER THE HISTORY OF USING IT I guarantee those folks have the smarts and the budget and the competitive spirit to rush out and buy it. After all their livelihood depends on it.
I don't really disagree with any of this, but PT has become a standard of convenience as much as anything else. It's not that cost is the issue to the big boys, that's true (which is why Digi and Avid can get away with their pricing; they are targeting the deep pockets.)

But PT has by way of history as much as anything else become the DAW standard in much the same way as the NS-10 became the nearfield monitor standard for many years, or that Sony EDLs were a common standard, and Avid became, and still is, a standard for NLVE. The key for each in their respective industries is the idea of a standard itself. It's not so much that either of those became a standard because of their popularity or superiority, but they became popular or superior because they were "standards".

The common denominator in all four examples was/is the level of importance given to transportability. Big Boy Pros need to be able to know that they can walk into any control room or editing suite anywhere and have formats and reference sounds that they are compatable with. And in the case of PT, it has the added advantage of nepotism; it's being brought to us by the same mother company that makes the Avid systems.

No single one of these examples can be described as the best in their field without at least legitimate debate. Especially in the case of the NS10s or the EDLs, both of which were sorely lacking in many technical areas (and have now been effectively de-throned as the kings of their hils, even if they till are in fairly common use). But they are good enough to allow The Big Boys to get the job done and done well. As long as they can do that as well in Singapore as they can in LA, everyone is happy.

The indie engineer, however, does not put transportability high on his list, and finds the pricing on Digi gear to be a bit on the botique side. It also requres, since this *is* HR, having a home PC that is a Mac. Regardless of relative quality, good or bad, most homes already have Wintel PCs in them that more than capable of acting as a quality DAW platform just as good as a PT system. Pick the siftware with the look and feel that works for you, add on the interface of your choice, and away you go.

And just for levity, am I the only one who finds it kind of humerous that those that Bash the whole Widows "my way or the highway" mentality as being so 1984, that to run PT, you HAVE to use a Mac and HAVE to use Digi hardware (with a small licensing exception for MOTU)?

G.
 
I'm sorry and again with respect that's just rubbish. The television and film industry is full of both ginormous budgets and VERY bright people. The cost of replacing a Digi 192 for another converter and software for multiple rooms is equivalent to a morning breakfast tab for many production facilities.
Unless you started to factor in the cost of retraining your staff to use a different DAW and the productivity loss during the transition. In the case of worldwide production companies, it would be a matter of throwing out thousands of DAW systems and replacing them.

Like Glen pointed out, if everyone is trained on it and it seems to be in every studio you might walk into, what is the insentive to go against the flow when you can afford to pay for a decked out HD system?

The fact that all the big studios seem to have it feeds the notion that it is the ultimate in professional tool. Even very bright movers and shakers can buy into that sort of thing. If just for the supposed compatability argument.

I know plenty of big dogs that are just as superstitious as anyone else can be.
 
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