Do I need Noise Reduction?

[Stevebol]

I'm going into a pre-amp to a tape deck(Akai),then to my computer.There's quite a bit of tape hiss by the time the samples get to the wave editor.The instrument I'm sampling isn't very loud so I have to just about max everything.I've been using the noise reduction in my wave editor but I'm not crazy about the results.
I remember not liking the built in noise reduction on my previous tape deck which was a Fostex 8-track.Should I possibly look into a separate noise reduction unit?I remember the DBX reduced tape hiss quite a lot on my Fostex but altered the sound a lot too.That might not be so bad since I'm just sampling.
Any ideas?

Thanks again,
Stevebol

 

[Beck]

That was probably Dolby C on your Fostex; Dolby B if it was an early A8.

The dbx 150 or 150X are good choices.

You can also get good results with a single-ended unit like the old Rocktron Hush IICX. It sounds like you could have more than tape hiss if you're maxing everything to get the levels you need. The IICX takes care of all kinds of noise.

If you want to stay with an encode/decode system similar to Dolby and dbx, Rocktron made a 2-channel unit called the A120 System One. It was actually their first product (mid '80s) and is hard to find these days. I think it runs circles around both Dolby C and dbx type I.

It reduces the noise by 30 dB and is similar to dbx, but with absolutely no pumping or other side effects. I don't know how they did it. I'm sure we would have heard more about it if digital hadn't come along.

Outboard Dolby units are another option. The TEAC AN-80 is a Dolby B unit -- cheap and plentiful on eBay. You really need to know what you're doing to calibrate those things. Outboard Dolby C units are almost non-existent, but if you see one that's even better.

I'm assuming your Akai is a reel-to-reel. If so, what kind of tape are you using? That will also make a huge difference when talking tape noise.

'Kinda curious about your mic and pre-amp as well. They shouldn't be all that noisy.

 

[Stevebol]

I'm using Quantegy 456 tape running at 71/2" per sec. on an akai 266 GX R to R.I have 2 Oktava Mc=012 mics going to a Rane DMS 22 stereo pre-amp then to the tape.From there I go to my soundcard at 16 bits,32Khz.Because the Tambura produces so many upper harmonics,recording at 32Khz seems to give better results than a higher rate. I have an idea what part of the problem is.
Most of the noise is coming from the mic I have placed about 3-4 feet away.The one I have placed about 1 ft. away is set at 75% at the pre=amp and sounds pretty good.I was using an Mk 319 for the distance mic but the 012 does a better job.I'm sure there's nothing wrong with my equipment,it's just a matter of mic placement and recording levels.I'm going to move the mic closer tonight. If I just record speech it sounds fine.
I want to keep the length of the samples all the same,right around 8-10 seconds long in case I do any looping later on so I'm using a wave editor to adjust the length and to fade.
I'm still experimenting at this point,EQ,normalizing,noise reduction,compresson,to see what's what.Once I decide what to go with I want to keep it the same for all the notes.The more processing I can avoid the better.
I've been reading the other posts about when to use noise redux and when not to.When I pluck a string there's a very strong sound for about 2-3 seconds,then it decays quickly and dies out after about 8-10 seconds so it's not really percussive,but it's not like an electic guitar or violin either.I think I can afford to lose some hi-end definition if I can reduce the noise,that's why I'm looking into a separate unit.Don't know much about em.
One last thing.Is there a way around normalizing?I'm not crazy about the affect it's having on my samples but I need SOMETHING that will make things more consistent.

Thanks again,
Stevebol

 

[Beck]

I'm using Quantegy 456 tape running at 71/2" per sec. on an akai 266 GX R to R.Stevebol

Is the GX-266 bias set for the 456 tape? The machine is factory set for tapes such as Maxell 35-90, which is 6 dB noisier than 456. However, if the bias isn't stepped up for the hotter tape you won't realize the full benefit. You'll have more noise and high frequency distortion.

You may know all that, but I have to ask.

 

[Stevebol]

I don't know what it's biased for.I tried to email the guy I bought it from but there was a problem with his address.Could you tell me more about biasing?

Thanks,
Stevebol

 

[Stevebol]

I thought the part about tape bias was missing from my manual which is a reprint but it's not.I'm still not clear on it though.The Tape Selector button say's-Out for low noise,and In for wide range.Any suggestions?

 

[Beck]

I thought the part about tape bias was missing from my manual which is a reprint but it's not.I'm still not clear on it though.The Tape Selector button say's-Out for low noise,and In for wide range.Any suggestions?

I'm not familiar with that particular Akai deck- not sure about that button. It's best to have a technician set your machine up for the tape you are using. My guess is you should probably go with a tape like 407 on that unit. You will still need it setup.

Bias is a high frequency well above our hearing range that is applied to the tape during the recording process. It excites the magnetic particles so they will reproduce the sound more accurately. Different classes of tape need different bias settings.

You may have heard the term "Bias compatible." A bias compatible tape can be used (theoretically anyway) on a machine setup for Ampex/Quantegy 456 without any bias adjustment. For example if your machine has bias set for 456 it can also use 3M 226, BASF/EMTEC 911 and Zonal 700. Ampex 406 and 407 are also bias compatible with 456, but need lower recording levels

If your machine has the bias set for consumer grade tape, such as Maxell or TDK 35-90 it will need to be adjusted for bias and level.

Some older machines can't be biased or have the levels set high enough to use something as hot as 456. In that case you would be better off with Quantegy 642, which is the recommended replacement for the now discontinued Maxell UD 35-90. But again, my guess is you'll be optimized with Quantegy 407, which is what I use on my Akai GX-77.


Below is about all you NEVER wanted to know about tape and bias:

http://www.digitalprosound.com/Htm/TechStuff/2000/Oct/Analog101P3_1.htm

http://www.tangible-technology.com/media/media_2.html

http://web.archive.org/web/20020212145744/www.dwelle.de/rtc/infotheque/magn_recording/magrec_04.html

http://www.digitalprosound.com/Htm/TechStuff/2000/Aug/AnalogTape.htm

 

[Stevebol]

I guess 407 is slightly thinner than the 456 so it's probably a better match for my deck.I'll get a reel to check it out.Most of this noise was a result of having mics to far away.I really need to work on mic placement.Sounds MUCH better now.
The noise redux in my wave editor works for the most part but it's a big pain.It would be much easier to handle it to and from the tape.I've seen most of the hardware units you mentioned on ebay.Since most of them are cheap(like me),I'll probably pick one up.But now I can't decide which one.

Stevebol