Do I need a compressor?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Leena
  • Start date Start date
L

Leena

New member
Hi guys,

I've been recording for a while but recently upgraded my mic to a Rhode NT1-A and I'm finding some real sensitivity issues. It sounds gorgeous when I sing the small notes close up for an intimate sound but I'm finding too many of my notes clip and distort. It's proving to be really difficult to get a clean edit without loads of clipping / distortion parts.

I've been wondering about compressor's for a while even with my last mic. I realise a lot of them are quite expensive so I want to be sure I'm doing the right thing before I buy one.

I've just started using mixcraft 5 which has a compressor effect but I don't really get the whole compression after recording thing? Isn't the recording already ruined if you have distortion?

Anyway, hope I'm making sense. Hopefully you guys can point me in the right direction.

thanks for the help,
Karliene. :-)
 
Leena said:
Hi guys,

I've been recording for a while but recently upgraded my mic to a Rhode NT1-A and I'm finding some real sensitivity issues. It sounds gorgeous when I sing the small notes close up for an intimate sound but I'm finding too many of my notes clip and distort. It's proving to be really difficult to get a clean edit without loads of clipping / distortion parts.

I've been wondering about compressor's for a while even with my last mic. I realise a lot of them are quite expensive so I want to be sure I'm doing the right thing before I buy one.

I've just started using mixcraft 5 which has a compressor effect but I don't really get the whole compression after recording thing? Isn't the recording already ruined if you have distortion?

Anyway, hope I'm making sense. Hopefully you guys can point me in the right direction.

thanks for the help,
Karliene. :-)
Click to expand...

A compressor (hardware or software) is always a useful tool.
Luckily it seems that you have one in your DAW.
Judging by your info it seems like your input signal is too hot. Try turning down your incoming signal from your preamp and then put the compressor on it.
:guitar:
 
Leena said:
Hi guys,

I've just started using mixcraft 5 which has a compressor effect but I don't really get the whole compression after recording thing? Isn't the recording already ruined if you have distortion?

Karliene. :-)
Click to expand...

Yes - you need to prevent digital the signal from overloading at the A-D converter stage at all costs. Once the analogue signal has maxed out the available 'dynamic range' bits during the digital conversion stage (ie, they are all ones) everything else which would normally go above this is violently chopped off which gives horrible distortion.
In order to do this you really need a hardware compressor slotted into your signal path.

Mic - Preamp - Compressor - A-D converter (or use the compressor as a channel insert if you're running through a desk) You can also get integrated preamp/compressor units.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news that more money needs to be spent. Believe me, once you start down the path of audio recording, your bank balance looks very grim for a long time!
The good news is that not all compressor units cost a month's salary.

Dags
 
yeah I think your right about all of it. I'm looking into compressor's now and have found one that could work and that isnt too over priced. Could you have a quick look and tell me if this would work? if that would do the trick then I'll go and buy it.

thanks for your help:listeningmusic:
DBX 266xs - Soundcorp Pro Audio
 
Also make sure that you aren't tracking too hot.
For digital, you want to typically track with your average signal level at -20 dBFS. If you're going hotter than that for the average signal, you're going too hot and that may be part of the reason you're clipping at the louder sections.
After doing that, proper mic technique will also help. Pull back for the loud notes and you may find you don't need a compressor at all!
Unless you're really belting it... Then even the 20dB headroom and proper mic technique may not solve all of your problems.
 
It would work, but going the hardware route isn't all that necessary. For that price especially you can find some really good plugin compressors.

What preamp are you running in to?
 
MrWrenchey said:
Also make sure that you aren't tracking too hot.
For digital, you want to typically track with your average signal level at -20 dBFS. If you're going hotter than that for the average signal, you're going too hot and that may be part of the reason you're clipping at the louder sections.
After doing that, proper mic technique will also help. Pull back for the loud notes and you may find you don't need a compressor at all!
Unless you're really belting it... Then even the 20dB headroom and proper mic technique may not solve all of your problems.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I do pull back and I've turned the mic level down. I've been doing this for a good few years and have never needed a compressor but this new mic is super sensitive. I sing a lot of soft stuff and then tend to build in parts so i need the mic to be able to pick up the soft - intimate vocals but not get distorted on the louder notes.

I find it's making my performance a bit weak as i'm trying not to sing loud sometimes which takes away from the over all feel of the song. It's not enjoyable to sing like this.

Anyway, me thinks I have to throw some more money down at the music shop and get me a compressor.
 
kidkage said:
It would work, but going the hardware route isn't all that necessary. For that price especially you can find some really good plugin compressors.

What preamp are you running in to?
Click to expand...

Just a little lexicon alpha thingy.
I've already got a compression plug in thingy on mixcraft but it doesnt seem to fix the distorted sound on the loud notes. I thought if I got a compressor / limiter it would even out the wave's while im singing so that everything is at the same sort of volume and easier to work with.

Am I wrong on that?
 
Leena said:
Just a little lexicon alpha thingy.
I've already got a compression plug in thingy on mixcraft but it doesnt seem to fix the distorted sound on the loud notes. I thought if I got a compressor / limiter it would even out the wave's while im singing so that everything is at the same sort of volume and easier to work with.

Am I wrong on that?
Click to expand...

You're right.

Usually though, compression is best applied to a low level signal.

Plug-in compressors differ just as much as their hardware counterparts :p
I'm not familiar with mixcraft, but even it's built in compressor should be of some use. Are you using it's presets or setting it up yourself?
My favorite compressor is one in my bass effects processor :D

Do you have a way to monitor the level of the signal coming in to mixcraft?
Don't worry if it's not too loud. There are tons of way to make it louder in the software.

Also, the lexicon alpha doesn't seem to have phantom power, but you say you're using a condenser.
Are you using an external phantom power supply? Maybe that could be causing something :confused:
 
kidkage said:
You're right.

Usually though, compression is best applied to a low level signal.

Plug-in compressors differ just as much as their hardware counterparts :p
I'm not familiar with mixcraft, but even it's built in compressor should be of some use. Are you using it's presets or setting it up yourself?
My favorite compressor is one in my bass effects processor :D

Do you have a way to monitor the level of the signal coming in to mixcraft?
Don't worry if it's not too loud. There are tons of way to make it louder in the software.

Also, the lexicon alpha doesn't seem to have phantom power, but you say you're using a condenser.
Are you using an external phantom power supply? Maybe that could be causing something :confused:
Click to expand...

Yeah i'm using a phantom power supply for the mic that then plugs into the lexicon.
My problem with the mixcraft compressor or any plug in compressor is that it only enables you to apply compression after the vocals have been recorded which doesn't help me.
My soft vocals sound gorgeous and I want to have both those soft and more intense moments clearly over the other instruments. I need everything to be at the same volume level really and I don't know if I like the idea of recording really quietly and then just raising the volume. I'm afraid I would lose that warmth and definition on those whispery vocals.

Anyway. i think I'm probably gonna bite the bullet and buy a compressor. I need to try it and see really.

thank you for your help
 
Yeah, no problem!
Check out that link to the FMR RNC I posted. Might help you out.
 
Leena said:
Anyway. i think I'm probably gonna bite the bullet and buy a compressor. I need to try it and see really.
Click to expand...

Yup. If you set your gains properly and you are stepping back from the mic on the loud parts and you are still clipping, then you need a compressor on the way in to your interface.

The other thing to do is not sing so softly. It seems like you are singing with a large range in dynamics. Try experimenting before buying. Don't sing so loud and don't sing so soft. See if you can find a happy medium and set your gains accordingly. I'm guessing you really like the tone of your voice when you sing softly because you are getting right up on the mic and utilizing the proximty effect, which accentuates the bass freqs.

Good luck!! :)
 
You should set your record level for the loud vocal. Clipping just shouldnt be happening.
If your mic is more sensitive than your previous one, turn the gain down!

The vocal can be compressed live or later on. Doing it live means you only have one chance to get it right. Later on gives you more control options.

As we say, an audio clip is worth a thousand words. Why not post a sample?
 
I use the DBX 266 XL its a pretty nice compressor but its nicer on instruments, it can be a little pumpy, I'm finding more and more its a live compressor and I tend to jump straight to the Sony Oxford Dynamics plug-in.

As was said above try to get the levels set neatly, around the -18db mark should be perfect :) but if you want to compress going in feel free as it can REALLY help you out, I find now that if I'm doing bass especially, (DI bass not amp) that i'm reaching for hardward compressors but thats about it in the tracking stage,

On mixdown tho, I like outbound compression
 
Tim Gillett said:
You should set your record level for the loud vocal. Clipping just shouldnt be happening.
If your mic is more sensitive than your previous one, turn the gain down!

The vocal can be compressed live or later on. Doing it live means you only have one chance to get it right. Later on gives you more control options.

As we say, an audio clip is worth a thousand words. Why not post a sample?
Click to expand...
2nd to all of this.
Things like distance from the mic- being a tone balance decision, and working distance at a given point vs how loud you're singing are all valid means of dialing' in to the final result, (as can be the decision to add a hardware compressor up front.
But try to see those things as a separate issue from the fact that you can and should be tracking at levels that allow for enough clean tracking dynamic -where ever those singing/distances/volumes land you.

The clean recording dynamic range is wide enough to cover it correctly.

Then decision to compress during or after, then becomes a matter of style and/or working preference.

The way you’ve been looking at it partly forces the compression into the role of damage control. :cool:
In other words don’t compress for the wrong reasons -which can set yourself up for a poor compromise.

When that aspect is freed up you can then compress later to the same result (or better- done in the leisure of play back).
Then to record into the compressor is another option- but it should be a nice sounding one, but put it there primarily for the purposes of tone and style.
 
I would read and understand what everyone is saying about range. Tim nailed the essential part - you want to set your gain so the loudest part doesn't clip. Then you have so many options with a DAW - compression is only *one* tool. Mic technique is a great option on the way in...

Alternatives to compression - or or use in conjunction with compression:

1. Volume automation on the quiet parts
2. Split into regions and use region gain changes on the quiet parts
3. Split into regions on separate tracks and raise the fader on the quiet parts
4. Record in multiple takes and use the faders to set volume levels

All of the above can get more natural results than just compressing..

If you end up with multiple tracks/takes bus them all to a single group track and apply compression there
 
LOL! "Do I need a compressor? " The question is, how many and which ones! Compression and limitting is an intregal part of any music... (plus all the blah blah blah from others, but yes? Compressors are a good thing)

Also, if you're singing through a proper mic pre-amp? You can squeeze it a little on the way in (also a good thing.)
 
I ran into this a little myself. I have a PC running mixcraft and basically I had to turn down the gain on my interface (m-audio mobile pre). And they are exactly right, it doesn't matter if the quiet parts seem really quiet when you record that is easy to fix. I'm sure there are much better ways to do this but the quick and dirty way would be to break the recording at the end of the quiet parts and put it as it's own track (just move it down 1 track and keep it at the same time slot). Then use the volume slider to turn up the quiet parts and down the loud. Just make sure when you're recording to set the gain right on your interface, make sure your mixcraft track has the little limiting volume knob all the way at the right(loudest). If the waveform gets all the way to the top of the line, it's clipped and bad.. Stop and turn your gain down more and do it again.
 
maybe i just didn't see it whilst reading through the posts, but what about recording two takes? record one with the mic level set to a level more appropriate for the sensitive parts and then one set to the louder parts. when it comes to editing them chop the loud and distorted parts out of the "quiet take" and use the loud and undistorted parts on of the "loud take".

or, for the price of a compressor, why not buy another NT1a if you're happy with the sound of it and set it further back and record both mics at the same time. the same kinda rules apply to the above suggestion in terms of editing (i.e the closer mic will probably clip in the loud parts whereas the further mic won't)

That aside, as everyone has said there are pro's and con's to tracking with compression but it's certainly not unheard of and certainly not uncommon. as others have said, the real danger is you only have one shot with it this way. if you over compress on the way in the take may be ruined, not enough and you still have the same problems of distortion.

Saying that, if you go down the compression route, i'd give a big thumbs up to the FMR RNC. if you set it up so that it's only dropping the signal -4db to -6db on the loudest part with a fastish attack and fast/medium release then you shouldn't have any problems.

my overall suggestions;

1) try doing multiple takes - 1 loud, 1 quiet
2) see if you can borrow a compressor from someone and try it out before buying (or find a shop with a good trial/returns policy)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top