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Shaun SS
New member
Is there something out there with either Firewire or USB out? Looking for something with a min of 8 or more Channels in via XLR. Thanks in advance..
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Shaun SS
New member
I take it they don't??
kgirl72
New member
Hi,
I'm probably the least knowledgable person running around here, but since I'm looking at USB audio stuff, I haven't seen any with this many inputs. Doesn't mean they're not there, but check out the EZbus by Event and maybe this Tascam can't remember model#, maybe a U-428 or something. That may be a jumping board. You can also do a search for USB or Firewire on this site, or on the above listed cards.
I haven't seen a Firewire with a mixer, but the Tascam and Event models do have sliders and mixer stuff.
Hope that helps some.
Kgirl 72
I'm probably the least knowledgable person running around here, but since I'm looking at USB audio stuff, I haven't seen any with this many inputs. Doesn't mean they're not there, but check out the EZbus by Event and maybe this Tascam can't remember model#, maybe a U-428 or something. That may be a jumping board. You can also do a search for USB or Firewire on this site, or on the above listed cards.
I haven't seen a Firewire with a mixer, but the Tascam and Event models do have sliders and mixer stuff.
Hope that helps some.
Kgirl 72
kgirl72
New member
And now, I realize what you REALLY asked, which is if any mixers have firewire OUT, and sorry, but I don't know this answer. Sorry for the time you will have wasted by the time you get to this point.
Kirstin
Kirstin
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Shaun SS
New member
kgirl72 said:
Kirstin, Don't worry about it. Wasn't that much time
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brzilian
New member
Shaun SS said:
You won't find anything with USB since it chokes on anything more than 4 24bit channels.
I really don't understand why someone would build something like that anyways - if you want digital outputs, most manufacturers use ADAT or SPDIF.
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Shaun SS
New member
Re: Re: Do digital Mixing boards with Firewire out exist?
My use would be with a laptop..
brzilian said:
My use would be with a laptop..
cordura21
New member
the Digi 002 by Digidesign (makers of Protools) is Firewire. While is not a mixer, is a recording device with a control surface so....
http://www.digidesign.com
(Products->Digi 002)
It has just eight faders, but it's pretty powerful. Maybe it's more than you need ($$$).
Cheers, Andrés
http://www.digidesign.com
(Products->Digi 002)
It has just eight faders, but it's pretty powerful. Maybe it's more than you need ($$$).
Cheers, Andrés
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mgraffeo
New member
For Firewire, the Digi002 is pretty much it. It will serve as an audio input, and a control surface for your software. All the other Firewire devices I know of (Mark of the Unicorn [MOTU] 896, etc) are simply audio interfaces (albeit very high quality ones), not offering any mixing-type ability.
The EZBus has USB (only 2in, 2out) or ADAT optical for 8in, 8out (you need to buy a PCI card for that). The EZBus has the added advantage that it is a standalone digital mixer. Of course, if you really want to get fancy, you can buy the MOTU 896, run the EZBus's ADAT optical out to it, and run everything down Firewire to your computer. But that's getting elaborate (and expensive).
As for the use of USB, it's a GREAT jumping-off point, if you want to start with just 2 channels at a time, and move up when you're ready to buy the card (sorry, had to get that off my chest, I've been reading WAY too many posts bashing USB recently).
If you've gotta go firewire, and don't want to spend $2k on the Digi002 (and I wouldn't blame you), look into the MOTU 896, and do your mixing inside the computer.
The EZBus has USB (only 2in, 2out) or ADAT optical for 8in, 8out (you need to buy a PCI card for that). The EZBus has the added advantage that it is a standalone digital mixer. Of course, if you really want to get fancy, you can buy the MOTU 896, run the EZBus's ADAT optical out to it, and run everything down Firewire to your computer. But that's getting elaborate (and expensive).
As for the use of USB, it's a GREAT jumping-off point, if you want to start with just 2 channels at a time, and move up when you're ready to buy the card (sorry, had to get that off my chest, I've been reading WAY too many posts bashing USB recently).
If you've gotta go firewire, and don't want to spend $2k on the Digi002 (and I wouldn't blame you), look into the MOTU 896, and do your mixing inside the computer.
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Shaun SS
New member
So if I was to do something like the Motu, would I be able to record live gigs too? How would this work? I'm guessing you would mic the 8 channels via XLR to the Motu 896, then use the XLR outputs on the 896 to go back to the mixing board then the PA? Adjust the volumes on the 896 so nothing clips going in to the computer and use the board like normal? This would allow me to put any effects I wanted, EQ changes, extra volume controll and so on.
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mgraffeo
New member
ShaunSS,
there are several ways you could use the system, but it really depends on what you want to be able to do. If you're looking to record live situations, usually you're talking about being able to use 2 or more mics, and record what they are picking up. If you want to do that, you'd place the mics, run them into the 896, and then the A/D converters in the 896 would convert the audio to digital, and send it to your computer via firewire, where it would be saved to your hard drive using the DAW software of your choice. After the performance, you can use the computer to do all of your mixing and final EQ, etc.
If, on the other hand, you're looking for a setup to be able to run live sound, that's a little different. Typically, a mixer for a gig would have more than 8 inputs (especially if a drum kit is being mic'ed). Each signal (vox, guitar, bass, keys, etc) runs into the main mixer, and then to the PA.
-If you want to capture the 2-channel signal going to the PA, you can just pull a signal from one of the sends on the board (S/PDIF if it's digital, etc).
-If you're looking to be able to re-mix these signals after the fact, you'd need to have a mixer with channel outs for each channel, so that your computer would be getting a copy of each signal going into the mixer. Then you'd need to have enough inputs on your computer to capture each of those signals.
The latter setup is quite a bit more complicated, and probably not necessary for live recording, unless you're planning on releasing a commercial "Live" album. You'd do great with two mics in a stereo configuration mic'ing the room, and leaving the setup completely separate from the live sound setup.
Just my two cents...
-mg
there are several ways you could use the system, but it really depends on what you want to be able to do. If you're looking to record live situations, usually you're talking about being able to use 2 or more mics, and record what they are picking up. If you want to do that, you'd place the mics, run them into the 896, and then the A/D converters in the 896 would convert the audio to digital, and send it to your computer via firewire, where it would be saved to your hard drive using the DAW software of your choice. After the performance, you can use the computer to do all of your mixing and final EQ, etc.
If, on the other hand, you're looking for a setup to be able to run live sound, that's a little different. Typically, a mixer for a gig would have more than 8 inputs (especially if a drum kit is being mic'ed). Each signal (vox, guitar, bass, keys, etc) runs into the main mixer, and then to the PA.
-If you want to capture the 2-channel signal going to the PA, you can just pull a signal from one of the sends on the board (S/PDIF if it's digital, etc).
-If you're looking to be able to re-mix these signals after the fact, you'd need to have a mixer with channel outs for each channel, so that your computer would be getting a copy of each signal going into the mixer. Then you'd need to have enough inputs on your computer to capture each of those signals.
The latter setup is quite a bit more complicated, and probably not necessary for live recording, unless you're planning on releasing a commercial "Live" album. You'd do great with two mics in a stereo configuration mic'ing the room, and leaving the setup completely separate from the live sound setup.
Just my two cents...
-mg
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Shaun SS
New member
Thanks everyone for the help on this.
mgraffeo,
This is what I want to be able to do..
1) Be able to record directly off the board in live gigs. 90% of the time our band does small bar type gigs not using more than 5-6 channels of wich 3 are vocals, 1 is me on sax, 1 is the aux percussion, kick drum, some times bass and guitar but very rare.
My thought for doing recording in this type of enviroment was 2 mics like you mentioned to get the "whole sound" but also doubling most the channels put through the board. Not always is the aux percussion, myself and vocals real clear. I think this would allow me to clean up the mix a little.
This is more for my own listening and practicing.
2) Being able to do some small home studio work with my band. (Different band)
My thought here is set up a mic for each, 2 guitars, bass, sax, 4 on drums (no vocalist). Do a basic out lined recording with these 8 channels. Then go back and rerecord the sax track in stereo on my own and sit with the others doing all the other tracks, bass, both guitars in stereo deleting them from the original mix. Once all the is done, give the drummer a set of headphones mic the drums with all 8 channels, removing the originals from the mix.
Those are my 2 main uses right now. I'm sure as time goes on, things will change. Now with that does the Motu 896 seem like a good option?
mgraffeo,
This is what I want to be able to do..
1) Be able to record directly off the board in live gigs. 90% of the time our band does small bar type gigs not using more than 5-6 channels of wich 3 are vocals, 1 is me on sax, 1 is the aux percussion, kick drum, some times bass and guitar but very rare.
My thought for doing recording in this type of enviroment was 2 mics like you mentioned to get the "whole sound" but also doubling most the channels put through the board. Not always is the aux percussion, myself and vocals real clear. I think this would allow me to clean up the mix a little.
This is more for my own listening and practicing.
2) Being able to do some small home studio work with my band. (Different band)
My thought here is set up a mic for each, 2 guitars, bass, sax, 4 on drums (no vocalist). Do a basic out lined recording with these 8 channels. Then go back and rerecord the sax track in stereo on my own and sit with the others doing all the other tracks, bass, both guitars in stereo deleting them from the original mix. Once all the is done, give the drummer a set of headphones mic the drums with all 8 channels, removing the originals from the mix.
Those are my 2 main uses right now. I'm sure as time goes on, things will change. Now with that does the Motu 896 seem like a good option?
C
CrazyMonkey
New member
Shaun SS,
The link cordura21 provided pretty much gives your firewire options, but for recording with a laptop, you do have another option: PCMCIA. There are audio interfaces from both Echo audio (http://www.echoaudio.com) and RME (http://www.rme-audio.com) that use a PCMCIA slot.
I use my laptop to record live gigs in small clubs and bars to help pay for the toys I play with at home. I use a Layla Laptop (PCMCIA interface from Echo) with a Layla EXP to bring me up to 16 channels of input. Maybe I can offer some advice.
First off, taking the main outs from the mixer never seems to work out. The mix that sounds good in the room doesn't always sound good recorded. In particular, the vocals and keyboard are usually much too loud, the drums much too weak. I also find that many bands have too much effects put on when recording live that sounds awful on the recording. Plus most of the bands mix in mono in these situations, and a stereo recording is nice.
Setting up room mics works sometimes. It depends on sound of the room, and if you can get decent mic placement without running cords across the dance floor or putting your mics in harm's way in a room full of drunks.
I'm always happiest when I record each instrument to be mixed later, with my own effects added. How I get the input depends on the band's mixer: if it has outputs for each individual channel, I will plug those outputs into my Layla for each vocal mic, keyboard, and drum mic the band happens to use, plus maybe the bass. I always have to add overhead mics to the drums, and sometimes the band has no drum mics at all, so I have to mic the whole kit. I also mic the guitar cabinets (it just always sounds better that way), and sometimes the bass cabinet, depending on whether the band runs their bass through the main PA and what kind of sound comes through. Also, as long as I have inputs left open, I will add room mics, in case I can get the sound I want from them, or to just add in more audience noise at the end of songs (the bands like to hear recorded applause
).
If the band's mixer doesn't have individual outputs (or they don't use a mixer.), I mic everything -- drums, bass cabinet, guitar cabinet, and I have the vocal mics plugged into my preamps. I send the vocals to the band's mixer/PA from the Layla's outputs (there's 8 of 'em).
Note that either way, 8 inputs is never enough. You can get it down to 8 by submixing drums through an auxilary output on the mixer if there's one available, but the drummer has to sit and play for you at actual volume while you set it up, and that sometimes pisses off the bar patrons.
Just some thoughts to consider.
The link cordura21 provided pretty much gives your firewire options, but for recording with a laptop, you do have another option: PCMCIA. There are audio interfaces from both Echo audio (http://www.echoaudio.com) and RME (http://www.rme-audio.com) that use a PCMCIA slot.
I use my laptop to record live gigs in small clubs and bars to help pay for the toys I play with at home. I use a Layla Laptop (PCMCIA interface from Echo) with a Layla EXP to bring me up to 16 channels of input. Maybe I can offer some advice.
First off, taking the main outs from the mixer never seems to work out. The mix that sounds good in the room doesn't always sound good recorded. In particular, the vocals and keyboard are usually much too loud, the drums much too weak. I also find that many bands have too much effects put on when recording live that sounds awful on the recording. Plus most of the bands mix in mono in these situations, and a stereo recording is nice.
Setting up room mics works sometimes. It depends on sound of the room, and if you can get decent mic placement without running cords across the dance floor or putting your mics in harm's way in a room full of drunks.
I'm always happiest when I record each instrument to be mixed later, with my own effects added. How I get the input depends on the band's mixer: if it has outputs for each individual channel, I will plug those outputs into my Layla for each vocal mic, keyboard, and drum mic the band happens to use, plus maybe the bass. I always have to add overhead mics to the drums, and sometimes the band has no drum mics at all, so I have to mic the whole kit. I also mic the guitar cabinets (it just always sounds better that way), and sometimes the bass cabinet, depending on whether the band runs their bass through the main PA and what kind of sound comes through. Also, as long as I have inputs left open, I will add room mics, in case I can get the sound I want from them, or to just add in more audience noise at the end of songs (the bands like to hear recorded applause
).If the band's mixer doesn't have individual outputs (or they don't use a mixer.
), I mic everything -- drums, bass cabinet, guitar cabinet, and I have the vocal mics plugged into my preamps. I send the vocals to the band's mixer/PA from the Layla's outputs (there's 8 of 'em). Note that either way, 8 inputs is never enough. You can get it down to 8 by submixing drums through an auxilary output on the mixer if there's one available, but the drummer has to sit and play for you at actual volume while you set it up, and that sometimes pisses off the bar patrons.
Just some thoughts to consider.
S
Shaun SS
New member
CrazyMonkey...
Thanks for you input. I totaly understand that the live recordings arren't going to be of the highest quality and am prepared for that. That band is more of a "practice" band for me. They do different music that I normaly don't play. I want to record them in a little better form than mini disk for me to figure things out, learn the material and style.
As for the instramental band, we have just started this group up. I know in 6 months to a year we will probably be giging and doing some recording. That is my main focus with what ever recording device I buy. Originally I thought a digital mixing board with 16/24 chanels with a firewire out would solve a ton of problems. However it doesn't seem to exist. I think doing the basic recording with the Motu and rerecording each instrament seems to be the next best thing.
Thanks for you input. I totaly understand that the live recordings arren't going to be of the highest quality and am prepared for that. That band is more of a "practice" band for me. They do different music that I normaly don't play. I want to record them in a little better form than mini disk for me to figure things out, learn the material and style.
As for the instramental band, we have just started this group up. I know in 6 months to a year we will probably be giging and doing some recording. That is my main focus with what ever recording device I buy. Originally I thought a digital mixing board with 16/24 chanels with a firewire out would solve a ton of problems. However it doesn't seem to exist. I think doing the basic recording with the Motu and rerecording each instrament seems to be the next best thing.