Do bands notate their songs using composition software?

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I think I have problems with just writing down what the chord progression is. Usually I'll forget exactly how something sounded when I played it on guitar or piano--the rhythm, dynamics, etc. I'm so used to reading music from a sheet that I get a vague sense that my practicing lacks structure--because I'll play something different every time.

Are most bands so used to improvisation that they don't need to notate every single part? Just have the drummer come up with a beat for each section, come up with a chord progression for each section, then write what the chord progressions are but improvise the rhythm until you get a final part?
 
Yeah I would say the vast majority of bands don't write out any music notation. If anything, they may write chord charts or maybe some tab, but the artists/bands that notate their music are few and far between I'd say.
 
no. Don't worry about it. :) most bands don't even know how to read notation, let alone write it. You can notate if you want... from time to time I might work in that way vs. the traditional "band" way... but for the most part... music should sound GOOD not sound RIGHT.
 
Yeah, that's what I figured. I really want to get proficient at using Sibelius or Finale though.

Hmm, I guess MIDI is a form of notation...I guess I mean in a classical sense, like the five line staff and treble and bass clefs.
 
no. Don't worry about it. :) most bands don't even know how to read notation, let alone write it. You can notate if you want... from time to time I might work in that way vs. the traditional "band" way... but for the most part... music should sound GOOD not sound RIGHT.

I'm pleased you had the wisdom to include the caveat "but for the most part", because sometimes music doesn't sound GOOD unless it sounds RIGHT. It is too easy for people to disguise sloppiness and poor technique as 'natural' or 'real' or 'true to oneself'. And I have heard some excrutiating performances from bands that have not listened carefully to their own sound.

But I generally agree: perfection is not necessary for music to be highly engaging. I recall reading where George Martin spent considerable effort on perfecting the technical side of recording, but wasn't too fussed about perfection in playing (witness early Beatles recordings).
 
There are also a number of bands who will record themselves to help remember what they wrote earlier. i.e. set up a microphone while you practice. Later on, when you're writing down the song (in whatever form you prefer), listen to the recording to recall the details.
 
Yeah, that's what I figured. I really want to get proficient at using Sibelius or Finale though.

Hmm, I guess MIDI is a form of notation...I guess I mean in a classical sense, like the five line staff and treble and bass clefs.

There's no reason you can't notate your stuff. I do that sometimes, especially when composing away from the guitar. But a lot of parts are kind of written while I'm recording a song, so in that case, the only reason to write it out would be just because you want it to look pretty. :) And there's no foul in that.
 
Yeah, that's what I figured. I really want to get proficient at using Sibelius or Finale though.

Hmm, I guess MIDI is a form of notation...I guess I mean in a classical sense, like the five line staff and treble and bass clefs.

Just out of curiosity, why is it that you want to become proficient with those programs?
 
I would say most musicians do not notate there songs themsselves someone else will usually do it after it is recorded.

When you say you always play it different you might want to try recording your idea and then before you go back to it listen to the recording and then you no your playing it exactly like how you remember and want it to be.
 
I've started slowly tabbing out my guitar parts in powertab. My brain doesn't do well at remembering how to play things that I maybe wrote several years ago, and haven't played much since. So, for new songs, I've been trying to do this, so hopefully, a few years from now I can quickly relearn them, should they fall out of rotation. It's fairly time consuming, but stragely satisfying to see an entire song scored out in a pretty professional looking manner.

Additionally, I think it's forced me to understand music theory a bit. I'm forced to assess strumming patterns or picking patterns and figure out how to write out the correct rhythm. By the time I'm done tabbing a song in powertab, I know it WAY better than I ever could have otherwise.

Powertab is a pretty decent program for the price (free). It's got a few quirks that could be better, but generally I like it quite a bit.
 
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I like to use a computer. Since I am/was a drummer, composing by writing a score on a computer, is the only way I would be able to do it.

so for me, its just a matter of pure music theory, and trying to make something i actually wouldnt mind hearing on teh radio.

BUT... I'm not sitting in a coffee shop, putting notes on paper, really. I can PLAY the music phrase I am working on at the moment, so I am playing by ear while I am writing by notation (?!?!)

instead of sheet music, I get to use a "grid" that somewhat reminds you of the paper roll on an old player piano if you've ever seen one live.

tabs drive me up a wall, I've read sheet music since I was little from lessons, LMAO.

plus, if you dont play guitar, tabs are laid out every bit as oddly as the fretboard that inspires it, *shudder*

what way is best? Beethoven probably thought sitting there with a pile of blank staff paper at his piano/clavinet/whateverthehellkeyboardheplayed... history would say he was right... some of the best musicians that not only play well but write music too, do it all start to finish on a piano and guitar.

I gave up asking a guitarist what chord they just played... "G my @$$ !! your using 4 fingers! Is it a major 7th?? a slash chord?!?! What!!

"Its a G, dude. Look... I'm gonna play it like 6 times before i am done... I have to play it exactly the same, but slightly different each time, or i sound like i barely know how to play, dude."

I figured they do not WANT there to be a sheet music of their original song, nor a codified vocal line on staff to preserve ONE of the "interpretations" of their own damn cool song, LMAO

*I gave up, I use a computer now, i can't work with any musicians I've met yet*

I mean, is it just ME, or... we're sitting there for an hour, me and the guitarist. We decided I could "make guitar" by instructing him based on what i heard...

"whoa... yeah... but like, jump up a little higher... yeah, cool..."

and once we got GOING, it was pretty cool. I'm trying basic drum beats with my hands, playing with pencils, its working, its productive... maybe we're tryign to sing nonsense fragments, come up with a hook or a title...

...next night? *Well, I think i was in G..... no, wait...*

so we recorded it... it takes 3 nights by EAR to re-learn to play "almost" what was going down the other day...

if i save my notes on my computer, it remembers songs i WISH it would forget and lose, LMAO

how do you get it officially copyrighted if its not on staff paper? Do they take tab? My computer doesnt take tab, LMAO

Why should you learn to play french horn, just to see if your melody sounds good on a french horn for accompaniment ? LMAO

everyones different at it, I guess.
 
My band will generally tab everything we write out in Tabit, we find it easier to make changes and learn parts.
 
Yeah, I was just wondering what most bands do.

I'm trying to branch out into composing, like learning Finale and everything. But I have to master music theory first. I think trying to recording with just me and my acoustic guitar's helped me a lot with my chord structures and melodies, just from an instinctive standpoint. I wish I could improvise jazz piano too.
 
Most likely they have someone else tab it out. I'm pretty sure most bands (or the record label, or whoever) will need that to register/copyright the work (and not just the sound recording).

The few songs I took the time to write out in something like PowerTab or GuitarPro, ended up sounding much better on the recording.

The majority of my songs, which I usually come up with "on-the-spot" or as-I-go, don't come out sounding quite as good...
 
There are situations where I'll document for memory via a simple recording, e.g. a simple project that seldom performs. The are other cases where I'll sketch out chord charts/write detailed charts (by hand or Sibelius). These are:
- A quick rehearsal before the gig
- For use on the gig w/little rehearsal (when music on stage is cool)
- For projects with rotating personnel - easy recall
- When transposition is likely required. Here I'd use Sibelius so I can easily crank out charts in any key
- For very specific parts/arrangements, e.g. particular chord voicings, harmonies, horns.

It's useful as a common language when everyone reads music. Or when YOU do and YOU need the reminder of a chart. There are certainly projects where I've never notated anything, because it's not useful.

A very nice thing about Sibelius (or any notation software) is that I can easily generate parts whe they get lost. I even post PDF's of them online for certain projects, so parts can be fetched wherever an Internet connection is available (has saved the day on several occasions)
 
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I'm trying to branch out into composing, like learning Finale and everything. But I have to master music theory first.
That's a good observation. You have to know basic theory before Finale will do you any good. I find Finale pretty frustrating at times and I know quite a bit of theory.

I should add that Finale does have a nifty feature that lets you enter notes onto virtual staff paper directly from a midi keyboard (or through guitar mic, too, I believe), but it's a glitchy application and is easily overwhelmed. Even with very careful playing of very simple melodies, I still have to go back and do a lot of editing-by-mouse after recording the performance. If the manufacturer ever stabilizes that particular feature, Finale would be useful to anyone who plays an instrument, regardless of whether or not they know any theory. For now, though, it's not that good.

Besides, learning theory is good for you. It builds strong bones and better musicianship.
 
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Heck, music theory was the only way i could get started making anything. For YEARS, all musicians (I am a drummer...lol) kept telling me they play by ear. No music theory required, and what was more it would make me WORSE to learn it, thay all held out...

*snort*

fast forward a decade... same guy that plays by ear, I go visit and get to see him practicing with his band. They dont do anythign national, but the singer puts out CD's original stuf, and he was doing stuff fro that...

mister "ear boy" is ALL of a sudden, bum-bah-BUMmmmmm....

all concerned about transpositions, what key to use fro the level shift, voicing slash chords with proper precision and ordering... do we HAVE to use the B and the B#? Kidna ruins it if we use a blues scale... okay, lets just keep teh scale for now, adn just quit using the B's, okay...

Hahaha... playing by ear my dimpled white butt.

so, you can imagine how livid I got when that little red light went off, LMAO

What does he have to say for himself after 15 years of this ear crap??

"Dude... I just didnt want you thinking I was a geek."

*sigh*... the moral of the story?? several other guitarists told me the same thing, whan I pressed them on it... you have to point a GUN at them to make them admit they study music theory like a chemistry textbook, LMAO

there is no possible way it can HURT to learn to write music by notation and music theory. It can only help. You already did well playing by ear? good, good... you'll be twice as good after the theory.

it was like pulling teeth for me to pick up basic theory, and learn how to make a bubble gum melody, lol... a year and a half later, I can sometikes write a melody line "by ear" after I am done with the proper stuff...

...point being, my ear is finally starting to wake up and be a tiny bit useful now, LMAO. (I guess I am doing it in reverse? theory THEN ear?)

the only way I can "grok" music theory is by looking at it thru mathematics eyeglasses... I see it all as set theory. Its a big series of interconnected sets... *no numbers*, all discrete algebra... the only numbers are the time signatures...
 
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Once i figured out what a melody was, I hear about a counter-melody... I ask what that is... *man, you should hear some of the stuff I was told*, LMAO

thank god fro this site, or... *shudder*

I want to slowly learn how to make something a lot more complex than what i hear bands around this small town play. If i stop short of that, I will feel like i wasted the last year or two learning this...
 
I think I have problems with just writing down what the chord progression is. Usually I'll forget exactly how something sounded when I played it on guitar or piano--the rhythm, dynamics, etc.

Record what you're playing, then you can always get someone's help if you can't figure it out later, but you'll have the document. I use my iPod with a Belkin mic to record important bits of rehearsals so I have some kind of record. Then, if needed, I'll notate it or else just use the recording to remember.

Are most bands so used to improvisation that they don't need to notate every single part? Just have the drummer come up with a beat for each section, come up with a chord progression for each section, then write what the chord progressions are but improvise the rhythm until you get a final part?

That would depend on whether you are (or anyone else is) writing for the band or if everyone's writing collaboratively. I've played in many situations where we just play tunes to work out arrangements. Depends on the band/writing style/time constraints. Also, I've played both with people who can't remember a tune until they've played it a million times and with people who get it after one play-through.

Elvis Costello learned some music theory and, more importantly, notation for the Juliet Letters album with the Brodsky quartet (later in his career). This is because he was writing and arranging the music (deciding exactly who plays what and how), and because he couldn't ask the Brodsky Quartet to to hang out and rehearse a couple times a week for a year to get the parts solidified.

Music theory is a representation of what you are hearing and by analysis can generate 'rules' for how we make music. So you can either know in your ear that a D-7 chord leads well in many cases to a G7 chord, or you can study Jazz and find that this progression is a major building block. This means that when you're writing and you've come up to D-7 chord and are looking for the next chord, you may either draw upon your ear or your knowledge of theory to suggest that a G7 might be a good next chord. Likewise, you can also decide by either method that the music wants to go elsewhere, avoiding the obvious choice.

My long-winded point is that theory can help expedite the process of writing or help you to achieve a style you're looking for, but it isn't truly necessary. Elvis Costello, for example, wrote Imperial Bedroom (and all his earlier music) without it (written, that is - his ear/musical sense is great) and did brilliantly. And so have so many others.

Hmm, I guess MIDI is a form of notation...I guess I mean in a classical sense, like the five line staff and treble and bass clefs.

MIDI representation is just another representation like "traditional" notation, except, obviously, that MIDI notation is typically electronic so it can be fed back into a sound module. Not all written notation is 5-line, or treble or bass clef. Different instruments use different clefs, in addition to bass and treble, and different numbers of lines in their staves. Some don't traditionally even use key signatures, e.g. French Horn. These different clefs and transpositions (which clef, which octave, how many steps off what's actually heard...) are to facilitate easier reading by humans. They essentially ensure that the common part of the range is in the 5 lines of the staff. Devices that play MIDI notation or instructions, don't need this convenience.
 
I'm pleased you had the wisdom to include the caveat "but for the most part", because sometimes music doesn't sound GOOD unless it sounds RIGHT. It is too easy for people to disguise sloppiness and poor technique as 'natural' or 'real' or 'true to oneself'. And I have heard some excrutiating performances from bands that have not listened carefully to their own sound.

There's no such thing as a notational error only rhythmic and phrasing...
 
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