Do analog effects still exist?

[Kasey]

I'm looking at all these reverb units to use with the auxiliary sends of my mixer, and theyre all digital, every single one. I dont want to have to make my signal go through crappy converters (because i'm low on budget i cant afford an effects unit with nice converters). So do analog ones still exist? maybe this is a silly question but i cant find any anywhere.

 

[mrbowes]

What is your budget?

If you can cough up $4-500, the Kurzweil Rumour is the answer.

 

[riley357]

You can get spring reverbs fairly reasonably.

Plates are a whole different ballgame.

As far as other analog FX, check out MoogerFoogers. They're stuff does what nobody else's does because it's voltage-controllable. No menus, just a foot pedal, gate signal, or LFO. Every parameter right at your fingertips at all times.

www.bigbriar.com

Check out the analog delay. The first one is a collectable now selling for about double it's original price. The new ones won't last long. It ain't reverb, but it's the only analog delay that does what it does. I already ordered one and would love to get a pair.

Another cool effect that has been brought back to life is the tape delay. Fulltone has really done a smash job on it. Again, it ain't reverb, but there are some great analog FX out there.

 

[regebro]

There are three (and a half) typea of analog reverbs, and two types of analog delays.

Delays first:
The old type is called tape delays. The use tape in a loop. Roland space echo is the most famous type there.

Second type is known as analog delays. The basically use a chain of condensers that delay the signal. The delay time depends om the amount of condensers and the samplerate. Yup, samplerate. They sample. So they are kinda half-digital.

Reverbs:
First there was echo-chambers. Big rooms built to have a long and nice echo. You put a speaker in one and and mics at the other. Obviously hugely expensive.

Then came the spring reverb. Uses springs. Sounds very special, metallic and eh, springy. Sounds great on guitar but not much else.

Then came the plate reverb. Sounds great, smooth, fantastic. About as big as a bed frame, and needs to be kept where nobody risks bumping into it while recording.

The last gasp was the gold foil reverb. Basically a miniturized plate reverb using gold foil instead of a steel plate. Wasn't very popular.

So, unless you have loads of dough and space, may I suggest you drop the "digital sounds like shit" attitude and buy a digital reverb? Trust me, it's gonna sound much better than a spring reverb.

 

[FALKEN]

I got a fostex stereo spring reverb off of ebay for like 200 bucks and I think it sounds great. Ive heard the furman one is the best (on HC at least) and you might be able to get one for 300. so far I have used it on vocals and fuzz bass. it blended very nicely with the rhythm tracks that were recorded live. no eq necessary, unlike digital reverbs which usually need high cut to make them not sound cheesy. there are some incredibly realistic digital reverbs though....

other than a vintage spring reverb or building a plate reverb, there are other ways you can get creative. using a "far mic" with your close mic will let you blend in the amount of "room" sound you want on each instrument on mixdown, if you can spare the tracks. this is probably your best bet. Other "creative" methods are to set up a speaker in a basement or bathroom and re-mic it. I have wanted to try running my vocals through the PA and mic it to get that "live" sound but haven't had tried yet.

now some acoustics guy is going to come crap on the parade and tell you to get a digital reverb. it really all depends on whether you're trying to get a "commercial" sound, a "retro" sound, a "boxy" sound, a "this is my own sound", or whatever.

but the short answer is yes, there are analog reverbs, and they are very cool.

 

[c7sus]

There are three (and a half) typea of analog reverbs, and two types of analog delays.

Delays first:
The old type is called tape delays. The use tape in a loop. Roland space echo is the most famous type there.

Second type is known as analog delays. The basically use a chain of condensers that delay the signal. The delay time depends om the amount of condensers and the samplerate. Yup, samplerate. They sample. So they are kinda half-digital.

Reverbs:
First there was echo-chambers. Big rooms built to have a long and nice echo. You put a speaker in one and and mics at the other. Obviously hugely expensive.

Then came the spring reverb. Uses springs. Sounds very special, metallic and eh, springy. Sounds great on guitar but not much else.

Then came the plate reverb. Sounds great, smooth, fantastic. About as big as a bed frame, and needs to be kept where nobody risks bumping into it while recording.

The last gasp was the gold foil reverb. Basically a miniturized plate reverb using gold foil instead of a steel plate. Wasn't very popular.

So, unless you have loads of dough and space, may I suggest you drop the "digital sounds like shit" attitude and buy a digital reverb? Trust me, it's gonna sound much better than a spring reverb.

There is no "sample rate" in an analog delay.

Nothing is converted from an audio wave into 1's and 0's.

Don't confuse Sample and Hold with digital sampling.

 

[Light]

Delays first:
The old type is called tape delays. The use tape in a loop. Roland space echo is the most famous type there.

You don't need a tape loop to get tape delay, just a real to real with vari-speed. You start at the beginning of the tape at the start of the mix. If you need any feedback, you just send the signal back from the return channel.

Which is, of course, how delays got their start in the first place. And you have more control that way.

So, unless you have loads of dough and space, may I suggest you drop the "digital sounds like shit" attitude and buy a digital reverb? Trust me, it's gonna sound much better than a spring reverb.

Absolutely. Analog IS better, but only if you have a massive budget. If you don't have the money, get a digital unit, and the Kurzweil's are probably your best bet (they will also have very nice converters, btw).


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[FALKEN]

You don't need a tape loop to get tape delay, just a real to real with vari-speed. You start at the beginning of the tape at the start of the mix. If you need any feedback, you just send the signal back from the return channel.

Which is, of course, how delays got their start in the first place. And you have more control that way.

please explain this.

 

[regebro]

There is no "sample rate" in an analog delay.

Yes, there is.

Nothing is converted from an audio wave into 1's and 0's.

Did I say that?

Don't confuse Sample and Hold with digital sampling.

I'm not. But even an analog delay based on "sample and hold" needs a samplerate.

Bucket brigade delays (which is what is ment with the phrase "analog delay") work by sampling the sound and putting the sampled level in a "bucket". Then, at the next clock signal, this value is passed on to the next "bucket" in the chain, while the first bucket again get filled with the new sample.

This is sampling. That is what the word means. Analog delays sample.

 

[regebro]

You don't need a tape loop to get tape delay, just a real to real with vari-speed.

And separate recording and reproduction heads, that need also to be accessible at the same time.

This is true for most 2-tracks, I'm told.

 

[Light]

And separate recording and reproduction heads, that need also to be accessible at the same time.

This is true for most 2-tracks, I'm told.

It is true for every unit I have ever used.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[timmerman]

I'm looking at all these reverb units to use with the auxiliary sends of my mixer, and theyre all digital, every single one. I dont want to have to make my signal go through crappy converters (because i'm low on budget i cant afford an effects unit with nice converters). So do analog ones still exist? maybe this is a silly question but i cant find any anywhere.

Put a good condencer mike in a good room, and record what you hear. Best analogue reverb I have heard so far

eddie

 

[regebro]

It is true for every unit I have ever used.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

Well, it's untrue for almost any thing with more that three tracks.

 

[MISTERQCUE]

Get yourself an M300 from TC and call it a day!

 

[regebro]

You got one too? They're NAAAJS! The tape delay is so good I hardly use my real one anymore. To much work patching it into the patch panel

That said, the new Lexicon MX200 looks really nice too, and costs the same. It solves the biggest problem with the earlier low-end Lexicons: The lack of knobs. The M300 has delay length, predelay and tone, which is all you need really, the Lexicons usually only had one parameter knob per delay. The MX200 solves that.

It kills the t.c. electronics on specs, and what sound you prefer is probably a matter of taste. I haven't compared the two.

 

[MISTERQCUE]

You got one too? They're NAAAJS! The tape delay is so good I hardly use my real one anymore. To much work patching it into the patch panel

That said, the new Lexicon MX200 looks really nice too, and costs the same. It solves the biggest problem with the earlier low-end Lexicons: The lack of knobs. The M300 has delay length, predelay and tone, which is all you need really, the Lexicons usually only had one parameter knob per delay. The MX200 solves that.

It kills the t.c. electronics on specs, and what sound you prefer is probably a matter of taste. I haven't compared the two.

Yeah Lennart, I bout mine from Sam Ash yr 1/2 ago for $179 and it's on par with my Lex MPX500.
I agree with on the 300's Delay parameters can practically be fine-tuned! Much more improved than my older 500.

 

[regebro]

What do you think about the sound itself (ignoring the parameter settings) when comparing the MPX500 and M300?
The MPX500 and the MX200 should sound quite similar.

 

[MISTERQCUE]

Hey man, you know i do a lot of synth horns (brass, reeds, etc) I look for that certain "big room" ambience and the 'Verbs are seemingly so pure that it's like actually listening in a large studio enviornment with great acoustics!
As well as the delays; they don't have that cheesy "PING-Y" effect I've found on several other models, but more of a spacial & nuanced effect that's clean!

 

[regebro]

please explain this.

OK, since nobody else does, and I like explaining...


If you have a tape recorder with a separate record and playback head (as most two-track reel to reels have) you can play back what you recorded with a small delay. The delay is the time it takes the tape to move from the recording head to the playback head. Tada! You have a delay!

Now, it's not a very practical delay because you only get one echo, and you'll soon run out of tape. But: If feed the tape recorder from an effect send, you feed the output signal not via a return channel, but via a normal channel, you can use the send on that channel to feed the delayed signal to the delay again. Hey-presto, you have an ECHO! Echo! echo! echo. And, if you switch out the standard tape reels for a never ending loop, you don't have to rewind as much.

The tape delays you can buy, like the Space Echo, basically put all of this is a box. some of these boxes also adds some cool extras, like a spring reverb and multiple playback heads. This gives you greater variability in the delay signal, with one head giving you very short delays and one a bit longer and one even longer. You'll never get these really long several second delays, unfortunately. You also have "multi-tap" delays where several of the heads are used, making for a much complex echo. The Roland SE-3xx and 5xx also adds a chorus effect.

 

[regebro]

Hey man, you know i do a lot of synth horns (brass, reeds, etc) I look for that certain "big room" ambience and the 'Verbs are seemingly so pure that it's like actually listening in a large studio enviornment with great acoustics!
As well as the delays; they don't have that cheesy "PING-Y" effect I've found on several other models, but more of a spacial & nuanced effect that's clean!

OK, cool, I was wondering if I maybe should buy an MX200 as well, but it dropped several steps on my wish-list now.

Still want a PCM80 though.