Dithering......

P

pozzoa

New member
Ok Guys, hello to everybody: this is my first message on the Forum !
I am getting the first experiences with a little "Home-digital-audio-studio" grown up in my bedroom.
I have a DS2416-AX44 set and I use Cubase VST 5.0 software installed in my Athlon 800 based PC.
I have the following problem:
I use to mixdoun my recordings using the DS2416 mixer instead of the VST one, this to take advantage of the hardware effects, EQ, and dynamic processor.
The problem comes at the moment in wich I have to mixdown to a Cubase track, hence from 24 to 16 bit.
In fact it is not possible to apply dithering or other IDR processor to the Stereo Master track on the DS2416 mixer.
A solution is to use the VST mixer to mixdown, it allow in fact to add effect in the master track, but in this way I have to use only software effects and this comes in loosing calculation power in the microprocessor.
Have you some suggestion for this topic ??
Thanks in advance guys !

Bye.
 
Hmmm, maybe I'm not understanding exactly, and maybe you don't have the facilities for this, but here goes...
Use all your hardware effects and whatnot on the DS whatever-it-was and run it out at 24 bit into VST, then use the Apogee dithering that is included with Cubase and burn CD's from there. :)
Did I understand correctly?
 
I don't quite get your question. But, to make a start, the DS2416 - is that the Yamaha card?
Correct me if I'm wrong, which is very likely, but I remember that as a 20 bit card right?

If you go in through the DS at 20 bit you should be able to process it and dump it to Cubase at a 24 bit setting without any problems. If you do it the other way around you'll incur some quality loss and some latency.

To be honest, I think you'd be better of remaining in Cubase, and collect some good VST plug-ins.

LOL I just realise I've said the same as tube - sorry!
 
Hi guys, and thanks a lot for your suggestions,
Sjoko2, you are on well: processing on the DS2416 is 32-bit, but ADC and DAC are 20-bit.
So the way is: down to 24-bit stereo track in Cubase (from DS mixer master) and then dither when burning CD.....brilliant !!!!!
and simple !!! thank you.
Anyway I don't agree the Sjoko2 suggestion about using VST capability only: at the moment I'm following this rule:
have you got good hardware resources ?? Use it before software !!!
What do you think about it ?
(furthemore I think DS effects, especially reverb and delay, are better then many other software plug-ins !)
 
of course, the DS effects are software, only analogue effects are really hardware ones... but this software is written in a ROM on the card (I think) and is executed by the DSPs on the card...isn't it ??
My thoughts was that it's better not to overload the PC CPU when you have available high quality features on the card or somewere in your hardware...
Obviously, if you got a 2 GHz CPU, with 1Gbyte RAM you can not to give a damn of all !!!

ah, sorry for may very bad english...

...about the previous question, Can I record a 24-bit track in Cubase while playing back 16 bit traks ??
ok, I will try this evening...!

Thanks and bye.
 
Yes you are totally right pozz, and your English is not bad at all!

You can do what you want to do, but I'd recommend you would at least stay at 20 bit, not 16. However, it will effect your audio, the more you do it, the bigger the effect. Just see if you are prepared to live with it.

There are tools available developped just for the purpose of what you are describing, like for instance the SRC9624 High Definition Sample Rate Converter, which allow you to work with multiple formats at the same time. However, these tools are very expensive!

I can pnly tell you what I would do, what you actually do is entirely up to you of cause. I would sell the DS, and for the money buy some god plug-ins and a small controller for Cubase. I can assure you you would get better results that way.
 
Update...

Sell the DS ??
I thought It were the better piece in my set...
Anyway you're saying to record directly in 24-bit format instead 16-bit ? have I understood well ? Yes, probably you are right...It would be the better think....
however I have to precise that I'm satisfied of my 16-bit mixdowns, they sounds well at my ears,....ok, they aren't perfect Studio-quality ones, but a good compromise. So maybe I can go on this way and collect experience with this equipment before upgrade my set...do you think ??

Thanks a lot fon now Sojko2, you were very helpful !!
bye.
 
I do pretty much the same as you Pozzoa. First, I record through my Delta 1010 into VST. When it's time for mixing, I route all the VST tracks to the DS2416, use the yummy effects and dynamics processors it has, and then re-record a stereo track back to VST. After that I use VST plugs for "mastering" that stereo track(Magneto, FreeFilter, Loudness Maximizer). And then I use the VST for dithering while making a stereo track to put on CD.

But - the only reason I don't stay in VST all the time is that my good old Mac G3 can't handle all the mixing I want to do. I'm a sucker for compressors you see (I have probably listened too much to Beatles' Revolver). So I contantly run out of processing power. But one day, I will be able to afford a G4 with dual processors. And I won't be mounting the DS2416 in that for sure.

So I think that if your computer can handle it, you're better off staying in VST. Even though the DS2416 has some very nice sounding effects there are just as good VST plugs out there.
 
DS2416...

Hi Henrik ! And thanks for your suggestions.
But you didn't specify what is the bit-domain you perform all that actions: 16-bit or 24-bit ?
Anyway, after many tests I have found a combination that seems to me the best with my own setup:
I use a mixture of the two mixers (VST and DS) : I use the VST one for adding insert-type plug-ins, and to manage goups, and I use the DS mixer to add ambience reverbs, EQ and Dynamics and for final mixing.
Than I record the mixdown stereo-track in Cubase (24-bit). At this point I use dithering to translate it to 16-bit domain before Mastering the CD.
Ok, ok it's quite difficult, but in this way I realize the best mixdown (for my ears, of course !!)

Bye.
 
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