Distorted Guitar Cab Micing

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CMB Studios

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Hey everybody,

My guitarist just got a new Mesa Boogie amp head/cab setup.

New*ish* to recording cabs because we've normally gone direct in due to shitty cabs/speakers in the past.

We have been getting good results but not optimal.

Using 2 57's on 2 difference cones on the "sweet spots" of each cone and double tracking (sometimes more)... we're getting good results but not the best.

I wish i had some sound samples to post for now but i dont.

I was hopeful i could hear some of your methods and perhaps play off those a bit.

Tyler
 
i use a palmer pdi-09 to great effect....
output of my mesa mark 2b straight into palmer, line out to DAW

a/b'd against a direct close miced 57, on and off axis, very little difference, other than room bleed.

awesome to blend in with a room mic for recordings, and perfect for live work.
 
Mo Facta said:
Before this thread gets going, there is only ONE authorative guide on recording distorted guitars:

Slipperman's Recording Distorted Guitars From Hell

End of story, thread closed.

Good night :drunk:
Click to expand...

I'm personally sick of that link. It's thousands of words of useless ranting with tiny tidbits of basic info sprinkled in.


If you're using two mics on the same cab, it's a good bet you're getting phase problems. Great care must be taken to get the two mics just right. If you can find a common transient in the waveforms, it's possible to micro-slide one track to almost-perfectly line up with the other. You can check it by flipping the phase of one of the tracks. If the sound almost vanishes, you're really close.

I think you might be better off just using one mic on the cab at a time, record a track, swap or move the mic, then track it again. Layer those tracks accordingly.
 
Mo Facta said:
Before this thread gets going, there is only ONE authorative guide on recording distorted guitars:

Slipperman's Recording Distorted Guitars From Hell

End of story, thread closed.

Good night :drunk:
Click to expand...
or you can just ask Greg who always gets great distorted guitar recordings.

and this:
Greg_L said:
If you're using two mics on the same cab, it's a good bet you're getting phase problems. I think you might be better off just using one mic on the cab at a time, record a track, swap or move the mic, then track it again. Layer those tracks accordingly.
Click to expand...
I see absolutely no advantage to using two mics to record a single cab/track but I do see several disadvantages such as the phase issues greg mentioned. Go to one mic and see if you don't get a more solid sound.
 
Using two of the same mic on a cabinet is fraught with problems, but using two different mics is wonderful. I almost always use a 57 and a 421 on a cab. The 421 captures all the stuff that the 57 doesn't and vice versa.
 
Farview said:
Using two of the same mic on a cabinet is fraught with problems, but using two different mics is wonderful. I almost always use a 57 and a 421 on a cab. The 421 captures all the stuff that the 57 doesn't and vice versa.
Click to expand...

+1 Anything ribbon, or LDC works great for the second mic. Add's another dimension to the sound that a single mic will never do!
 
Greg_L said:
I'm personally sick of that link. It's thousands of words of useless ranting with tiny tidbits of basic info sprinkled in.
Click to expand...

You may be sick of it but a first timer will be entertained.

Fine then.

I'll never post it again, you bunch of bitter apples.

Cheers :)
 
I've found it interesting using two mics, one on the front and the other in the back of the cab (well, combo with two speakers in my case).
Surely there will be phase cancellations, though. Try to mitigate those with mic positioning.
Then, at mixing i've been able to find a punchier sound more easily.
 
I started using two mikes a while ago because I got a bit bored with using a single mike and wanted a nice change to the guitar tones I was getting.

Try mixing a 57 (which can be quite dull) with an SDC. A C1000 is actually a good mike for this, despite being well hated by most engineers.

Another good combination is the AKG D112 and c418. Steve Albini reckons it's the best combination for guitars ever.

Cheers :)
 
Two mics is great and all, but this guy is new to recording cabs. Let's get him getting good tracks with one mic first, then he can move on to two. Baby steps, yall. :D
 
Greg_L said:
Two mics is great and all, but this guy is new to recording cabs. Let's get him getting good tracks with one mic first, then he can move on to two. Baby steps, yall. :D
Click to expand...
right now the guy is new to all of this and he has two 57's.
personally I don't see anything useful about using two 57's on a single cab.
Plus ..... if you haven't learned to get a good sound outta one mic you're not ready to deal with two.

That's all greg is saying.
Too much info for a newbie is counterproductive a lotta the time.
Let's help the OP rather than get in arguments over our personal preferences.
 
GONZO-X said:
i use a palmer pdi-09 to great effect....
output of my mesa mark 2b straight into palmer, line out to DAW

a/b'd against a direct close miced 57, on and off axis, very little difference, other than room bleed.

awesome to blend in with a room mic for recordings, and perfect for live work.
Click to expand...





zero phase cancellation.
 
After all this feedback and vast research i've done, i understand the process and the objective... find the "best" cone, which is relative... find the best placement, whether it be distance from the VC distance from the cab and track. I guess its a matter of ear training at this point.

I will try using a 57 as a stand alone but i like the idea of blending 2 mics. Taking the "don't use the same mic" recommendation i am gearing towards (after becoming "satisfied" with the 57) throwing a TLM 102 on there with it.

Same cone or different? same "sweetspot" or different?
 
CMB Studios said:
After all this feedback and vast research i've done, i understand the process and the objective... find the "best" cone, which is relative... find the best placement, whether it be distance from the VC distance from the cab and track. I guess its a matter of ear training at this point.

I will try using a 57 as a stand alone but i like the idea of blending 2 mics. Taking the "don't use the same mic" recommendation i am gearing towards (after becoming "satisfied" with the 57) throwing a TLM 102 on there with it.

Same cone or different? same "sweetspot" or different?
Click to expand...
gotta go with your ears.
One way I've found that makes it pretty easy is I put pink noise thru the amp .... then if you wear headphones to hear what the mic is picking up while moving the mic around, it's VERY easy to hear exactly what difference moving the mic makes.
You can very easily hear small changes in the levels of various freqs and/or excessive amounts of lows/highs/mids and other pretty detailed sound changes you get from different positions.

Blending two 57's will 'cause more problems than it solves but using two different mics will, as several have said, add stuff that can be very desirable.

BUT .... I do think it's a good idea of learning to get great sound with just the one first. Mic positioning is an artform all in itself and you want to have as few variables as possible while learning it.
Don't forget ..... some of the very best guitar sounds ever were recorded with just a 57.
So I would say that everyone should learn to do that first and then move to a second mic ..... they'll have a lot more knowledge of what they're doing with that second mic that way.

I mean, not that I care what anyone chooses to do ......... I don't believe in rules that much and also don't really care how good a sound anyone else gets so do your thing as you wish.
I just think it's easier to really learn what positioning does if you minimize the variables.
 
In general, the closer to the center of the speaker, the brighter the sound. As you move the Mic toward the edge, the sound gets darker.

For a 57, my starting point is the spot where the dust cap meets the cone. With a 421, about half way between the edge of the dust cap and the edge of the speaker.

However, there is generally some back and fourth between tweaking the amp and moving the Mic. I normally have the amp in the control room and the cabinet in another room. That way, everyone is focused on the sound being recorded instead of the sound of the amp in the room.
 
I always meant to read Slipperman's guide...

However by quickly looking through it it looks like to me a small amount of actual info spread out through a ton of anecdotal nonsense... As hilarious as it may be, I can't be bothered sifting through all that.

I usually stick a 57 half a foot or so away slightly off center from the speaker cone... I'm trying to reduce that annoying fizzy sound I always get when recording overdriven guitars!
 
I record with 1 es57 (57 copy) placed at about a 45 degree angle onto the cone and then double track the guitars and pan them left and right (varies how far) and I am very happy with the results!
 
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