giraffe
i love negative rep
hell, it probably was a joke
i'm just kinda slow like that.
i'm just kinda slow like that.
Zaphod B
Raccoons-Be-Gone, Inc.
I'm siding with the the "stick to your guns" crowd.
You had a deal, and you lived up to your part of it - now it's the band's turn to live up to theirs. No payment in *full*, no CD.
And Harvey made an excellent point, too - you should contact the others in the band. They may have no idea what's going on.
You had a deal, and you lived up to your part of it - now it's the band's turn to live up to theirs. No payment in *full*, no CD.
And Harvey made an excellent point, too - you should contact the others in the band. They may have no idea what's going on.
SouthSIDE Glen
independentrecording.net
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Zaphod B said:
What he said.
Document all your conversations with him and keep all e-mails. You'll need proof of your good position if push comes to shove in small claims.
G.
Ford Van
Banned
So what were the payment terms listed in your standard studio contract that you had them sign?
You DID have them sign a standard studio contract outlining what your services would be, payment schedules, and delivery, right?
Lesson learned! I do NO business with people without a signed contract. I have made studio clients sign one for 1/2 day studio time. It is just the right thing to do, and really, simplifies that whole thing.
Other studio owners have stated that they could "never" get clients to sign contracts. I have "never" had a problem getting a client to sign one. Really.
What is great about the contract is that now both parties have a document that clearly spells out the agreement.
IF you were to have a contract, and the product is completed, and they didn't pay, you would have to give them a reasonable amount of time to pay. After I believe a month, you can actually charge a reasonable interest fee. The laws in your state most likely tell how long you have to give them to pay before you seek litigation to recoup your payment. What is nice is that if you have a signed contract, and they don't pay, and you go into court to settle, you can also recoup legal fee's associated with getting your money.
Let me tell you what, whenever I have had a client sign a contract to record, they have NEVER wavered from making timely payments.
I one time made an exception with a band. I knew one of the members quite well, and had done a LOT of business with him in the past. So, I let the contract go, and also wasn't requiring that they pay deposits. Guess what? Sure as shit, they didn't show up for a session. I am STILL waiting for the payment for that session, as well as a deposit for any future sessions. This is two years later! LOL
Anyway, make your clients sign a contract, and ALWAYS get deposits for your future sessions.
You DID have them sign a standard studio contract outlining what your services would be, payment schedules, and delivery, right?
Lesson learned! I do NO business with people without a signed contract. I have made studio clients sign one for 1/2 day studio time. It is just the right thing to do, and really, simplifies that whole thing.
Other studio owners have stated that they could "never" get clients to sign contracts. I have "never" had a problem getting a client to sign one. Really.
What is great about the contract is that now both parties have a document that clearly spells out the agreement.
IF you were to have a contract, and the product is completed, and they didn't pay, you would have to give them a reasonable amount of time to pay. After I believe a month, you can actually charge a reasonable interest fee. The laws in your state most likely tell how long you have to give them to pay before you seek litigation to recoup your payment. What is nice is that if you have a signed contract, and they don't pay, and you go into court to settle, you can also recoup legal fee's associated with getting your money.
Let me tell you what, whenever I have had a client sign a contract to record, they have NEVER wavered from making timely payments.
I one time made an exception with a band. I knew one of the members quite well, and had done a LOT of business with him in the past. So, I let the contract go, and also wasn't requiring that they pay deposits. Guess what? Sure as shit, they didn't show up for a session. I am STILL waiting for the payment for that session, as well as a deposit for any future sessions. This is two years later! LOL
Anyway, make your clients sign a contract, and ALWAYS get deposits for your future sessions.
P
Pughbert
New member
offer them 3 of the songs for the extra $200, and all 6 for $300. If they choose to only take 3, you only loose $100, but they loose almost half the deal. If they have any sence they part with the extra $100 for all the tracks.
7string
Well-known member
Would you guys that make clients sign a contract be willing to link to a copy of said contract for those that are/may be running a studio and don't have a contract? I know I'd like to see one just as a 'draft.'
mshilarious
Banned
7string said:
I just use BOC's standard rider
jfrog
uber-nerd
Harvey Gerst said:
that's exactly what I was going to say....the guitarist is probably badmouthing you to the rest of the band.
Monkey Allen
Fork and spoon operator
Tell them you can do them this favour for them this one time...tell them, who knows, maybe you will be called upon to do a favour for me...
Or, make them an offer they can't refuse...
or do what G-String said
Or, make them an offer they can't refuse...
or do what G-String said
pandamonk
Well-known member
I'd say do the selling their CDs at their gig idea. If anything happens say that you're just trying 2 make back the money they owe you. Either this or say that after a certain time, say 2 weeks, you will start charging interest of 1% per day unless they give valid reasons of why they can't/wont pay. Or give them a CD of half of their work, and say they only paid for half and they will recieve the rest when they come up with the money. Either half of the total amount of songs, or half of each song, lol. Dont accept the non payment, and advertise the fact that they only paid half if they start badmouthing you.
Dont accept the non payment, and advertise the fact that they only paid half if they start badmouthing you.
SouthSIDE Glen
independentrecording.net
Look, the current situation is that you got paid $300 for a job where you haven't delivered the product, whereas they gave you $300 and got nothing for it. Even though you are currently being ripped off, the fact is you are way ahead of them in the game.
For this reason only, you should just stick with your guns. The current situation is such where they will have to make the next move unless they want to just burn the $300 they already spent for nothing. They'll do one of three things: they'll pay you or work out a payment arrangement with you, they'll take you to small claims court, or they'll eat the loss and just bad mouth you.
Regardless of which tack they take, you have the advantage already. And more so, regardless of which tack they take, exacerbating the situation with adolescent pranks like celling CDs or threatening destruction of the work will serve only to weaken your position, not strengthen it. You really gotta just play chicken with this and let them blink first.
If after 90 days or so they do not make a move, and you have a well documented trail of making a best effort to resolve the situation, then it's time to either summons them to small claims or just count the $300 you already have as a half a loaf compared to their no loaf at all, smile slightly, and get on with life.
G.
For this reason only, you should just stick with your guns. The current situation is such where they will have to make the next move unless they want to just burn the $300 they already spent for nothing. They'll do one of three things: they'll pay you or work out a payment arrangement with you, they'll take you to small claims court, or they'll eat the loss and just bad mouth you.
Regardless of which tack they take, you have the advantage already. And more so, regardless of which tack they take, exacerbating the situation with adolescent pranks like celling CDs or threatening destruction of the work will serve only to weaken your position, not strengthen it. You really gotta just play chicken with this and let them blink first.
If after 90 days or so they do not make a move, and you have a well documented trail of making a best effort to resolve the situation, then it's time to either summons them to small claims or just count the $300 you already have as a half a loaf compared to their no loaf at all, smile slightly, and get on with life.
G.
C
chessrock
Banned
You know, you wouldn't necessarily have to sell their CDs at their shows.
You could sell CDs with the band's name on them, and with their songs ... but with you performing all the songs yourself. Really poorly. Sing really off-key and replace all the guitar solos with a kazoo or something.
That way, everyone who takes home a CD will say: "This band sucks!"
That would be pretty cool. Unless of course people actually think your versions are better than theirs. Maybe people who are really artsy fartsy will see some sort of deep artistic merit behind the incoherent ramblings and off-key kazoo solos. Then the band might become rich and famous, and it could all backfire on you. That would actually suck.
.
You could sell CDs with the band's name on them, and with their songs ... but with you performing all the songs yourself. Really poorly. Sing really off-key and replace all the guitar solos with a kazoo or something.
That way, everyone who takes home a CD will say: "This band sucks!"
That would be pretty cool. Unless of course people actually think your versions are better than theirs. Maybe people who are really artsy fartsy will see some sort of deep artistic merit behind the incoherent ramblings and off-key kazoo solos. Then the band might become rich and famous, and it could all backfire on you. That would actually suck.
.
TuoKaerf
New member
So I spoke with a few of the other band members this afternoon and it turns out that the guitarist was telling them that he hasen't been in contact with me, and has gotten no messages from me. I have no idea what is going on with that, but the rest of the band is quite pissed with him about that. I told them all I wanted to do is ensure when the rest of the payment could be made, and they told me that will be solved immediately. I guess they have had problems with him before about not wanting to pay for services, or neglecting calls and such. They are now looking for proper management, and I doubt he'll be playing much guitar for them in the near future.
I make a few backups for all of my projects. I have a hardrive that I save all my archived session files, and I have at least one copy on a DVD or Data CD in case the hardrive shits on me. I also have a copy on my partitioned drive in my computer, which I will wipe when I start something new.
I've learned my lesson in dealing without contracts, and without setting specific payment dates (i'm thinking half up front, and rest on delivery of the project) so everyone knows what is expected.
It sucks to see it end on kind of a downer, since I had a good relationship with the group. Everyone was pleased with the process and how the end product turned out.
I make a few backups for all of my projects. I have a hardrive that I save all my archived session files, and I have at least one copy on a DVD or Data CD in case the hardrive shits on me. I also have a copy on my partitioned drive in my computer, which I will wipe when I start something new.
I've learned my lesson in dealing without contracts, and without setting specific payment dates (i'm thinking half up front, and rest on delivery of the project) so everyone knows what is expected.
It sucks to see it end on kind of a downer, since I had a good relationship with the group. Everyone was pleased with the process and how the end product turned out.
I
iratecaller666
New member
Contracts
Here's a contract.
I'm not being 'smart' .. but maybe someone will find it usefull.
I myself am not a buiness owner.
Stick to your guns budy. No money no funy.
Empathy is fine. Yeah sure you understand that money's hard to come by, but so is a CD. If the band is serious, they should have saved up the money BEFORE entering into an agreement with you.
Do you agree to buy things you can't possibly pay for?
The band full of loosers (or commanded by a single looser) obviously can't afford to go to another studio, so you've got them by the nut sack.
Tell them that usually you clean your hard drives every second week as someone already mentioned, but that in their case, you're willing to hold on to it in your archive for a period of six months, because you like the music. That will make them feel special, and if there was an emergency that led to them not being able to afford your service, then, that's life. If they truly are a good band, then not paying for your cd is like setting fire to your studio before a big project. It just doesn't make any good buisness sense.
Tristan
Here's a contract.
I'm not being 'smart' .. but maybe someone will find it usefull.
I myself am not a buiness owner.
Stick to your guns budy. No money no funy.
Empathy is fine. Yeah sure you understand that money's hard to come by, but so is a CD. If the band is serious, they should have saved up the money BEFORE entering into an agreement with you.
Do you agree to buy things you can't possibly pay for?
The band full of loosers (or commanded by a single looser) obviously can't afford to go to another studio, so you've got them by the nut sack.
Tell them that usually you clean your hard drives every second week as someone already mentioned, but that in their case, you're willing to hold on to it in your archive for a period of six months, because you like the music. That will make them feel special, and if there was an emergency that led to them not being able to afford your service, then, that's life. If they truly are a good band, then not paying for your cd is like setting fire to your studio before a big project. It just doesn't make any good buisness sense.
Tristan
I
iratecaller666
New member
oops
I see you've solved your problem. I guess it took me too long to write my response. LOL. (over an hour??? maybe my browser goofed . oh well.)
Sorry.
Tristan
I see you've solved your problem. I guess it took me too long to write my response. LOL. (over an hour??? maybe my browser goofed . oh well.)
Sorry.
Tristan
peopleperson
I'm so sorry.
Yep, I'm gonna add to the stick to your guns mentality. A customer is a customer is a customer, and if you always want to make them happy one way or the other, however, you did your end of the deal. That's what it comes down to in my opinion. You can't worry about bad word of mouth. You could easily argue that many people may take your side in a situation of which they don't really know the details of.
Whatever, back it up and if and when you get the dough, give em what they want.
Either that or burn a bunch of copies of St. Anger and sell them as their cd's.
Whatever, back it up and if and when you get the dough, give em what they want.
Either that or burn a bunch of copies of St. Anger and sell them as their cd's.
T
themaddog
Rockin' & Rollin'
Think of it more as conflict with the guitar player, and not the whole band, and look forward to working with them (minus their guitar player) again.
-MD
-MD
SonicAlbert
Super-Sonic "Herb" Albert
TuoKaerf said:
It's not really a downer, and who knows if this is the end or not with this band. If anything, they are more likely to work with you again than the guitarist. Once you are paid and they get the songs, this little episode will recede into the past and it's quite possible you will be seeing them again.
Harvey gave you some good advice!