kristian
New member
i was listening to a pepe romero cd and i checked out the recording dates. and they are all between 81~85. were they using large tape based digital recording back then because its has the 'DDD' seal on it.
kristian
New member
and second...
i believe it was most likely done in 16 bits. any input on that?
i believe it was most likely done in 16 bits. any input on that?
K
klytus
New member
Could it be that the original recordings were analogue, but they've been digitally remastered for the CD release?
drstawl
Banned
No- that would be "ADD"
John Sayers
Solar Power!!
I think the Sony PCM DASH recorders were coming out then, or maybe they were using the multi- sony PCM F1 system all locked together using U-Matic video recorders.
cheers
John
cheers
John
skippy
New member
Yup. DASH was introduced at the '83 AES show, if I remember correctly... I did quite a bit of 2-track digital with the PCM-F1 and both VHS and U-Matic decks in that timeframe. And, just for amusement, I actually still have a PCM501ES (the "consumer" PCM-F1, which along with its big brother the PCM701 represented pretty much a total failure for Sony Consumer...). I still have safety copies of a few of the masters we did with the PCM-F1, and the PCM501ES can decode them. Fun to listen to them now.
It had two record modes- 14-bit and 16-bit. Ahh, them was the days!
But my favorite primordial digital recorder has to be the dbx Model 700. Wish I'd never sold that. It was a 2-track non-PCM recorder made in '82-'85 or so. It was actually a 1-bit delta-mod converter, sampled at 256kHz if I remember correctly, and could be used with either U-Matic or VHS. Sounded damned good: essentially no quantization noise, and *spectacular* linearity. Kicked the _shit_ out of my 1/4" 2-track at 30ips, and was the workhorse of the room right up until I sold it all off in the late '80s. Sigh... No way to listen to those safeties, now.
Anybody have one of those they want to get rid of?
It had two record modes- 14-bit and 16-bit. Ahh, them was the days!
But my favorite primordial digital recorder has to be the dbx Model 700. Wish I'd never sold that. It was a 2-track non-PCM recorder made in '82-'85 or so. It was actually a 1-bit delta-mod converter, sampled at 256kHz if I remember correctly, and could be used with either U-Matic or VHS. Sounded damned good: essentially no quantization noise, and *spectacular* linearity. Kicked the _shit_ out of my 1/4" 2-track at 30ips, and was the workhorse of the room right up until I sold it all off in the late '80s. Sigh... No way to listen to those safeties, now.
Anybody have one of those they want to get rid of?
bvaleria
New member
mmmm, 14-bit - yummy!!!! 
Isn't that a nice warm nostalgic feeling - the early days of digital - kinda like the harsh, raspy crispness of 1st generation CD players.... ahhhh, now THAT was fidelity!
yikes.....
Bruce
Isn't that a nice warm nostalgic feeling - the early days of digital - kinda like the harsh, raspy crispness of 1st generation CD players.... ahhhh, now THAT was fidelity!
yikes.....
Bruce
skippy
New member
Yeah. The 501 and 701 truly were oozing turds, so to speak. The F1 was little better, but it sure tried hard.
But did you ever get to listen to a Model 700? They were _sweet_. I really do miss that machine... They really shone at low levels (reverb tails and the like), since they don't really "lose resolution" (exhibit excessive quantization noise) when recording and reproducing low level signals. There was no graininess in the tails *at all*. Delta-mod also does not exhibit the same hard clipping behavior as a linear PCM system does. Sure, they will clip if you run the levels too high, but it's not a hard flat-topped slam. It's more of a gradual slew-rate limiting thing with a reduction in swing per step: this gives a remarkably very analog sound when you run out of swing. Very soft, and wonderfully familiar to the analog guy. That box was _asskicker_ in the early '80s, to be sure.
Its a great pity that the high-rate delta-mod encoding concept didn't catch on for pro audio, frankly. Nobody who started in this field after maybe 1985 will ever agree with me, but I honestly believe that it is superior to linear PCM in every respect, *when done right*. Doing DSP and editing on a delta-mod bitstream is a little more complex than on a PCM stream, but it's just a matter of one extra transform in and out, or a different choice of algorithms- you'd have to avoid baseline shift...
Sigh. We once had the perfect encoding scheme, but it died in the marketplace. It's a great pity. Too bad dbx couldn't make it work, commercially. I'd give my left nut for a 16- or 24-track Model 700-like delta-mod machine that just dumped the data to hard disk instead of tape. Too bad that disk was too big, too noisy, and too expensive to incorporate in a viable studio product, back in '83...
Time to start looking on EBay. Seriously! I want one of these things back, and maybe nobody remembers how good they were. Video-speed disk storage is dirt cheap, nowadays. Hmm.
But did you ever get to listen to a Model 700? They were _sweet_. I really do miss that machine... They really shone at low levels (reverb tails and the like), since they don't really "lose resolution" (exhibit excessive quantization noise) when recording and reproducing low level signals. There was no graininess in the tails *at all*. Delta-mod also does not exhibit the same hard clipping behavior as a linear PCM system does. Sure, they will clip if you run the levels too high, but it's not a hard flat-topped slam. It's more of a gradual slew-rate limiting thing with a reduction in swing per step: this gives a remarkably very analog sound when you run out of swing. Very soft, and wonderfully familiar to the analog guy. That box was _asskicker_ in the early '80s, to be sure.
Its a great pity that the high-rate delta-mod encoding concept didn't catch on for pro audio, frankly. Nobody who started in this field after maybe 1985 will ever agree with me, but I honestly believe that it is superior to linear PCM in every respect, *when done right*. Doing DSP and editing on a delta-mod bitstream is a little more complex than on a PCM stream, but it's just a matter of one extra transform in and out, or a different choice of algorithms- you'd have to avoid baseline shift...
Sigh. We once had the perfect encoding scheme, but it died in the marketplace. It's a great pity. Too bad dbx couldn't make it work, commercially. I'd give my left nut for a 16- or 24-track Model 700-like delta-mod machine that just dumped the data to hard disk instead of tape. Too bad that disk was too big, too noisy, and too expensive to incorporate in a viable studio product, back in '83...
Time to start looking on EBay. Seriously! I want one of these things back, and maybe nobody remembers how good they were. Video-speed disk storage is dirt cheap, nowadays. Hmm.
kristian
New member
its hard for me to think that digital recording was around when at the time computers couldnt even manage to spew out a beep that sounded anything like anything but a beep. thats why i asked this question in the first place. its also cool to see the number of people who used or heard digital way back when it was, hmm.. how to say it, crappier then it is now 
hehehe.
hehehe.
mixmkr
we don't need rest!!
I'll chime in here and spew that I think Alan Parson's stuff sounded pretty darn good back then..and still does if you can still digest that style of music. Not that that means anything!!!...or applies here..or...ah...ummm
John Sayers
Solar Power!!
How about the original Fairlight...8bit/32khz 
I did a whole album on one for a client!
cheers
john
I did a whole album on one for a client!
cheers
john