Digital recorders/workstations (we know we're stupid here!)

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krungthep

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Here's stupid,...I wish to record my music both classical & Jazz(live instruments & MIDI input) with a view to producing CD versions and cannot see the pros of recording on a digital multitracker or recording with a workstation as a sequencer (isn't a sequencer and a digital multitracker the same thing?)

I am starting out. All I have at present is a Digital piano, a PC which I use only for composition / notation but am reluctant to use as a music studio...(I need convincing on that one and explanations as to how to get the same results!)

I have in my mind say a Korg D1600 compared to a freestanding Roland VS 890.

I apologise for the stupidity of this question but I live in Thailand where I cannot get ANY information in English from the guys selling the equipment (no demos available as they don't know what they hav ein the shps!)...I am also stuck having to get what is available (the two above quoted) rather than what I would like.
Thanks for your advice.

The other way to look at this question is " what are the basic requirements for setting up a home studio.

I look forward to your replies......
 
I don't know if I can answer all your questions but I'll have a go.

Basic requirements: you could get a Korg D1600 and some microphones and record straight onto that. That model comes with various effects as far as I remember, including reverb and compression, I think. Don't know about EQ. In theory if the D1600 comes fitted with a CD burner, you can record straight onto it, mix and process the music and burn it to CD. For better quality recordings you would probably want to add some effects boxes for reverb, compression etc. BTW the D1600 and the Roland recorders are digital multitrackers, i.e. digital multitracking recorders. Also a hardware sequencer is not the same as a recorder - you can't record on it, it just plays music.

PC recording is popular because it's cheap. You can turn a PC into a digital multitracker for as little as $50. You usually have to spend more money on a mixer or preamp as well. PC recording is also very flexible: you can play around a lot with your music on the PC, trying out different effects, EQ etc. Confusingly, the software used for recording such as Cubase or Logic Audio is often called a sequencer, but they're not the same as hardware sequencers.

I currently record on a PC. if I had the money I might well buy a Korg D1600 or similar as I prefer recording with real instruments and effects boxes to software instruments and using a mouse. However, it would be a difficult decision. What you can do with PCs these days is amazing. I might go for a more powerful PC instead. Fortunately - or unfortunately - this is an entirely acedemic quandry.

Hope what I've said has been of use.
 
Atwork
Thanks very much! You have helped clarify some issues....

I appreciate the pros of a PC but I guess I, like you, would rather deal with the real thing. (perhaps technophobia on my part).

Just let me clarify:
A Roland workstation (for example) is designed to play back music and is not designed for recording live intruments in the way that a multitracker is? Did I get that right? Does that mean it is processing a signal rather than accurately recording what goes in?


Perhaps I am making more of this than I ought to but I want to be crystal clear!
Thanks again...
 
whoops! strike my last message...just read yoiur reply again....the D1600 and the Roland are the same i.e....digital mutlitrackers...but do they do the same thing? Why is one called a 'workstation'?
Thanks again!
 
sequencers and multitrackers

There is a fundamental difference between the two. A Multitracker is recording "audio". A sequencer is recording "MIDI". If you go with a digital multitracker, chances are it also is either a sequencer, or can be controlled by an external sequencer (examples, the Yamaha AW2816 has onboard "automation" which is done with MIDI sequencing; the Akai DPS-16 can only do automation using an external sequencer.)

Did I make that clear? Or just confuse you further?

-Shaz
 
Krungthep:

I think the D1600 will do what you want. It will travel for live recording and has 4 XLR's with phantom power and 4 x 1/4" inputs (8 channel simultaneous recording capability) , so you probably have enough inputs to work with for a basic live recording. For using the 4 x 1/4" inputs you will need a source of phantom power, (and line matching transformers - not too sure?)

It allows scene automation when mixing your tracks down, and has enough good sounding effects, to make quality sounding mixes. With the CD burner installed, you're making finished CD's.

I have a D1600, but I have ZERO experience with MIDI. I am not completely sure, but I think it only can accept MMC control for the mixer, and for effect parameter controls. It can sync tracks via midi time code, and can generate midi to control an external mixer or another D1600, if you ever wanted to pair two. Is this what you would want to do?

I would say if you want portability, and have concerns about using a PC based set-up, this machine (or competitive unit) is for you.
 
Setting up a PC for recording audio is kind of a bear. It isn't really that hard if you have some PC experience, some courage and a forum like this for help, BUT you sometimes have to change settings on the PC that make it less convenient to use for other things. It a bad idea to use your audio PC for other things.

And it isn't protable unless you use a laptop and that shoots the main advantages of PC workstations: cheap and upgradeable.

While I am a cumputer recording fanatic now, I *did* start (for 10 years, actually) on a simple stand-alone cassette 4-track. Without that experience I would have had a much harder time using the DAW.

The only problem I can foresee with the stand-alone units is if you want to use midi with your digital piano. As long as you don't mind recording your piano as audio they should be really enjoyable machines. I have heard some awesome music come out of the Rolands.

Have fun!
Chris
 
Just looked at that Roland VS890. I think this is a new model. It appears to be an 8 track digital multitrack recorder. Confusingly, there are currently a number of different types of machine described as workstations by their manufacturers. They include sequencers, synthesizer workstations and recorders. The Korg D1600 and the Roland VS890 are both recorders, I think.
 
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Thanks guys!

I have to say a big thank you to all of you for your replies...I actually now have a better understanding of this.

Looking through your comments, I wonder if it is any surprise that I was so confused? I now see that I have been working in MIDI and feel this was not the way I wanted to go and audio reproduction appears to be what we are talking about.

It would be only fair to say that at this stage I am leaning towards the Korg D16 partly becaus eof curent availability here...now all I have to do is find the money!

I feel that we all know we can do anything with a PC but without being a born computer whizz, I fear hours of wasted time working out and reading manuals to find why there is no sound from...etc....you know how it goes!
Thanks again...
 
Digital Shmigital

I know I'm gonna get a lotta flack over this but here goes.
You don't NEED a computer to do your recording. Granted, workstations and multitrack units are just that "computers", but you CAN do it all without CPU, Monitor, mouse, or computer keyboard.
Gee Mister Science....how do you do that???
I'll use my set up as an example. What's important is what works for you and how fast you want to drain your bank account!!!
My workstation, is my Korg T3. Yes it's an older unit, but it does the job.
All percussion and orchestration (strings, woodwinds, brass, in addition to special effects) are done on board the T3, not all at once mind you, that's where midi and syncronization comes in.
I sometimes utilize a Roland R8 for some percussion also. (It's got great cymbals)
On the T3, I build the percussion track(s). This is dumped raw, thru my Korg D8, directly through to my Pioneer PDR-w739 burner, for retreval should I want that.
That same material,(percussion from the T3) is then taken where I work with it on my D8 (Digital multitrack...I have two in sync).
When I'm okay with my percussion mix, levels and panning, I'll transpose this to two tracks. Remember I've still got the raw data on CD.
Now I can repeat the process for the other T3 voices.
Bass guitar is recorded from an actual bass.
Guitar is recorded from an actual guitar.
Vocals of course are the last to go on.
Think about it, multitrack recording without some computer doing it for you.
I've avoided the use of the Cakewalk, Protools, etc. toys because it's just too easy to get lulled into a sense of "false authenticity". oooo am I gonna get yelled at!!!
Krungthep...don't be afraid to break the rules...and Good Luck
http://sh-boom.freehomepage.com/index.html
 
I'm not yelling!

Old Guy,
Thanks for the description. This is essentially where I was aiming...I don't particularly want to use my PC. I like the idea of real buttons to push and slide! Hence considering the D16 where I just record everything directly into and then mix down. Point taken though that it too is basically a computer.
 
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