Digital Mixer clipping

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VirtualSamana

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I am using a Roland Digital VM3100pro as a mixer into my Echo Darla sound card. The mixer has 24bit converters. Funny thing is the mixer always clips well before the Darla even though the Darla is recording at 16 bit. I explained this to tech support at roland and they stated that this was not possible. That the 24 bit resolution of the 3100pro will record louder than any sound card recording at 16 bit. But tis not true! In fact the Darla's meters read around -10 db when the mixer starts clipping. Anyone know what's going on here?
 
The bit-depth has nothing to do with how "loud" something will record. The difference between one bit-depth and another is precision, not "volume" level.

Now ... if you're hooking the digital output from a mixer to a soundcard ... and the mixer's meters says it's hitting full scale, while the soundcard's say it's 10 dB below full scale ... something is either hooked up wrong, or somebody's meters have a problem, or something.
 
Ok, there goes Roland's tech support theory regarding loudness and bit depth.

You made me realize that I need to clarify a bit. My Darla does not have any digital ins. So I use the analogue outs on the mixer into the darla's analogue ins. Now I am curious. If bit depth doesn't determine what makes my mixer clip what does? Should I look at the specs regarding dynamic range?
 
Check out what is the nominal input level of your card and what is the nominal output level of the mixer. If the inputs work at 0dB level and the mixer puts out signal at -10dB level then it would be obvious that the input VU meters on computer show 10dB less than the output VU meters on the mixer.
 
Well it would be 14dB difference if the Darla is set to +4 and the Roland is outputing a -10dB signal, which it is.

The bit depth is completly irrelevant. The analog outputs are plugged into the Darlas analog inputs, whicc are TRS for bal/unbalanced cables. Balanced being three conductor +4dB and unbalanced two conductor (guitar type)cable at semi pro -10.
The cool thing about the VM3100 (like mine) is the digital outputs. Don't be fooled they are 16bit 44.1khz dual mono or stereo outs. Unless something has been changed on the new ones (which I doubt) that's all it has. That's fine for me. I just set the Echo Mia to accept that 16 bit signal (it has an option) and set the clock in the Vmixer to master and turn the digital clock off in the Mia card. Now the computer won't record without the VM3100 turned on. It's only two channels but the sound is really nice. Plus you can use the analog inputs on the card to in put the auxes or busses of the VM3100. Here's a link to some stuff I recorded for my dad, you be the judge if 16 bit is enough for you.

http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/album.php?aid=1871&alid=-1
 
Damn, I just realized the darla has no digital inputs. AND the spdif is locked at24 bit on the "pro" version of my mixer. Sorry I'm an ass.:(

Hey, trade the darla for a Mia and get some money back.
How many inputs do you need to record at one time?
The VM3100 pro has the RMDB II digital 8 channel I/O. They also sell cards that go straight to a computer. Something to consider.
 
Cool tunes Jake, sounds great. Mic that guitar. Your playing is too good for using a direct sound.

The best way to connect the VM3100Pro is with the RBUS cable if you get the Maudio RBUS card. Then you have 8x8 digital transfer. Those are great little mixers for the money but they can be a pain to program.
 
I wish I could take credit for the playing, that was all my dad.
 
jake-owa said:
Well it would be 14dB difference if the Darla is set to +4 and the Roland is outputing a -10dB signal, which it is.
Click to expand...
Er, no...

The difference between a -10dbV and a +4dbu signal is about 11.79db......

The two units are based on different reference voltages, so it is not simply an additive or subtractive difference...
 
Wow this is all new to me. Thanks for all of the useful information. What I would like to do is get the loudest signal recorded as possible with out clipping. How would I do that with my setup? Would I get a louder signal recorded with another mixer or a sound card with digital ins?
 
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