Digital Limiting SUCKS

  • Thread starter Thread starter FALKEN
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FALKEN

FALKEN

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so I spent all night trying to level out 12 songs...merely bring them to the same volume. I tried every single option I could think of to keep the sonic integrity intact. tried multiple plugins. soft knee. hard knee. etc. etc. EVEN MATERIAL WELL BELOW THE THRESHOLD, which SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN ALTERED, still came out MUDDY, UGLY, LESS STEREO, LESS LIVE, AND IRRITATING.

what a waste of time.

if anybody out there thinks they have a solution to these ills please post it here.
 
FALKEN said:
so I spent all night trying to level out 12 songs...merely bring them to the same volume. I tried every single option I could think of to keep the sonic integrity intact. tried multiple plugins. soft knee. hard knee. etc. etc. EVEN MATERIAL WELL BELOW THE THRESHOLD, which SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN ALTERED, still came out MUDDY, UGLY, LESS STEREO, LESS LIVE, AND IRRITATING.

what a waste of time.

if anybody out there thinks they have a solution to these ills please post it here.
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Let a professional do it.........!
 
I had a similar situation. There was this track that came from a live CD I was trying to get some compression on and it wouldn't go without getting just ugly. I started looking through it in greater detail and found three of four spots where there was a handclap or other spurious sound that was sitting around -0.5 at its peak while everything else was way below that. I found those, knocked them down to fit in better and I could bring the whole track up 3 or 4dB and then the compression worked like it was supposed to.

Does anybody know if Wavelab Light has a tool to find the peaks? It'll tell me what the peak in a segment is, but not where.
 
this is one problem i have, i can get my mixes to a reasonable level but there are too many peaks to get it to a suitable level qithout clipping etc. is this plugin available for cubase?
 
drummersteve said:
this is one problem i have, i can get my mixes to a reasonable level but there are too many peaks to get it to a suitable level without clipping etc. is this plugin available for cubase?
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Here's a quick and dirty (and wholly unprofessional) way to do it.

First, try to have the overall mix average around -6dB.

Next, use a hard limiter (and I mean HARD, ratio @ -inf:1) and limit peaks to -6dB.

Then, normalize peak to -0.2dB.

Nowhere near professional mastering, but your mix will be loud.
 
Blue Bear Sound said:
Let a professional do it.........!
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Not important enough of a project to spend $$ on it. Besides, aren't those people supposed to polish a turd into a diamond? I already have a diamond, and its coming out like a turd.



apl said:
I had a similar situation. There was this track that came from a live CD I was trying to get some compression on and it wouldn't go without getting just ugly. I started looking through it in greater detail and found three of four spots where there was a handclap or other spurious sound that was sitting around -0.5 at its peak while everything else was way below that. I found those, knocked them down to fit in better and I could bring the whole track up 3 or 4dB and then the compression worked like it was supposed to.
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So I should peak limit before I peak limit? I think the problem is more serious...


Alan Lastufka said:
http://www.sawstudio-media.com/video/levelizer.wmv

Watch that video. ;) Should solve your problems.
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is this supposed to have sound?? I'm not sure exactly what I saw. It looks like its showing you where to set your peak limiter. I am not limiting nearly as much as in this video yet it still sounds like ass afterwards.


Thanks for trying tho !!!
 
Alan Lastufka said:
http://www.sawstudio-media.com/video/levelizer.wmv

Watch that video. ;) Should solve your problems.
Click to expand...

or are you saying that I should add makeup gain through normalization rather than at the limiter? I think the problem is more likely due to the way the algrorithm takes down the top bits rather than boots up the bottom ones. but, you never know. or at least, i dont.
 
why limit in the first place?


I like the quote that says, "if it sounds good, then it's good".
 
Seriously ...

If all you're trying to do is normalize this stuff and level-match, then it doesn't take a rocket scientist.

I'm sorry to give ya shit for it, bud, but ... c'mon. How do you screw that up? Do you have trouble dressing yourself in the morning, too?

:D :D
 
The video should have sound yes - and that is where the narration and results are heard that will walk you thru what you are seeing.
 
chessrock said:
Seriously ...

If all you're trying to do is normalize this stuff and level-match, then it doesn't take a rocket scientist.

I'm sorry to give ya shit for it, bud, but ... c'mon. How do you screw that up? Do you have trouble dressing yourself in the morning, too?

:D :D
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NICE one!!

the project was recorded live over a weekend, and some of the songs are just way louder than the other ones. rather than lower the loud ones, I am trying to bring up the quieter songs. and I am frustrated cuz it sounds like shit afterwards. especially when compared to just pushing the fader up on my outboard mixer.

the most I am applying is 5 db of gain. to tracks where the RMS is like -18 to -20.
 
As my Dad used to say: "It's a poor carpenter who blames his tools."

Keep working on it, you'll get it....
 
How the hell can a mix come out 'less stereo' after a bit of limiting?
 
rapedbyape said:
How the hell can a mix come out 'less stereo' after a bit of limiting?
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Too much hard limiting can wreck a perfectly good stereo image.
 
What are you using for a limiter? How are you setting it.
 
rapedbyape said:
How the hell can a mix come out 'less stereo' after a bit of limiting?
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now you know my FRUSTRATION!!!


Farview said:
What are you using for a limiter? How are you setting it.
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I have tried a few different plugins. I have tried settings of about 15:1 and inf:1. with varying degrees of knee. 0ms attack (anything longer would just let the peaks through, which defeats the point), and everything from 25ms to 100 ms of release. and 3-5 db of threshold and gain (and yes I know how to properly set the makeup gain).
 
rapedbyape said:
How the hell can a mix come out 'less stereo' after a bit of limiting?
Click to expand...

got home, ran a quick phase inversion test on 2 mixes, one limited normally, and one with each stereo channel limited separately. wouldn't you know it, the stupid plugin was working both channels at once.

one step on a million mile journey..

i am going to keep at this one till I either blow my brains out or blow some cash on a tape machine.
 
On a serious note:


Your best bet in a situation like this probably falls under the whole saying, "simple might as well be better".

The impression I get is that you want to try and smash everything as close to zero db as possible (correct me if I'm wrong). But rest assured, if that's the case, you're probably doing more than you need to.

You have to understand what limiters are and what they will do to your sound. It would be somewhat logical to think that by limiting everything up to a curtain point and then pushing up the make up gain, then you could expect just an increase in volume. That's true, partially.

You will boost up the volume, but at the same time you're althering the EQ of the sound because of the way frequencies react at different volumes. This is one of the things mastering engineers get heavy on.

If you truly want everything at a simliar level, pick your softest song and use that as a reference. Remember, not every song needs to be stupid loud. In fact, it would probably do better to have songs with different dynamic range...it makes for a more interesting experience. :D
 
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