Digital Brittle

[jaynm26]

I just want some peanut brittle

 

[Ethan Winer]

Maybe that smooth acoustic instrument sound we seek is just not obtainable on prosumer grade equipment?

I promise you that is not the problem. Modern "prosumer" grade gear is perfectly fine for capturing very high quality recordings. You can easily prove this for yourself: Take a CD you think sounds excellent, play it on a decent sounding CD player, and record that into your sound card's line input. How does the recording sound when played back? If it sounds the same, then your sound card is not harming the quality. You can also do a loop-back test which is similar and possibly even more telling:

Converter Loop-Back Tests

--Ethan

 

[gecko zzed]

Mikerofone, I hear EXACTLY what you are talking about. I too have struggled with that harsh metallic sound quality in my mandolin and guitar recordings. I started with an MAudio interface... Then a firestudio project... Then a babyface.. Same thing, harsh and yes brittle. I have an AT 4051b, a km184, and a rode NT1a. None of them help. Then I got a grace m101 pre.. No luck, then a GAP pre73... no luck. I'm still searching. Maybe that smooth acoustic instrument sound we seek is just not obtainable on prosumer grade equipment?

In nearly all cases, the inability to get a satisfying sound derives from recording and mixing techniques and the room in which this is done, rather than from the gear that is used.

 

[ashcat_lt]

Uh...

The problem is that there's too much high frequency harmonics coming through from the attack? Then why do you keep swapping one condenser mic for another? Do it all day long and the extended HF range and fast transient response of these mics will just keep spitting that brittle nastiness at you. Replace the thing with a dynamic, or a ribbon, and it will magically disappear. There are dynamic mics which are too fast for my ears on acoustic guitar too, but it cant hurt to try. My favorite mic for acoustic is my EV635A.

 

[Beck]

Digital Brittle is a fair term as subjective terms go. However, you can get plenty brittle with analog is you're not careful. As for making digital sound analog... no, not really. There's a lot of money being made with the perception that some plugin will do it for you, but its not real... only marketing. There is an element of acclimation to all this though; the more people get accustomed to it, the less they hear it because there is nothing to compare. Some people try to remember how analog sounded way back when (the last time they heard it), but auditory memory doesn't work that way. Rather than waste time and money trying to fix digital with digital, the best way to go these days is a combination of analog and digital. Tracking or mixing down to analog will give you the real thing. Ain't nothing like the real thing.

 

[GONZO-X]

digital is probably closer to the real thing than analog.
LOL


so, with that said, there's nothing inherent in digital that would give a harsh recording.

only, in your choice of gear, and more importantly, GAIN STRUCTURE.

after that, it's mic positions, room sound, quality of instrument, choice of EQ and processing.

because modern gear provides such a more clear representation of what the sound REALLY is that is being captured, it allows much wider frequency ranges to be processed, and some hear the extra treble as 'harsh' or brittle.

this is easy to work with, once you understand what is happening.


i know exactly what analog sounds like, having worked with it for 20 years before learning how to use digital formats.
there is nothing that analog has over digital any more.

it's strictly a learning process, like everything else, progress marches on, and the best ears around are rolling good stuff with it.

 

[RAMI]

digital is probably closer to the real thing than analog.

That's right. One might prefer the sound of analog, but it's not more "honest" than digital, It's actually what analog adds to audio that makes it desirable. Digital captures exactly what you give it without, or minimally, altering it.

 

[ashcat_lt]

i know exactly what analog sounds like, having worked with it for 20 years before learning how to use digital formats.
there is nothing that analog has over digital any more.

Except for unavoidable noise! Luckily, there are plugins for that, too.

 

[miroslav]

there is nothing that analog has over digital any more.

People spend a lot of money on plugs to make their digital sound more like analog....

Don't get me wrong, I don't have anything against digital...I use it right alongside my analog stuff all the time, but I find it amusing when people talk up digital, but then work at making that "clear representation" of digital sound more like it was all recorded and processed in the analog domain.

I think that's what Beck meant about "more real"....IOW, if you want the sound of a tape deck, use a tape deck....etc.

And like RAMI said:

It's actually what analog adds to audio that makes it desirable.

And maybe that's the thing for some folks....what is more pleasant and more desirable, and not what is more accurate.

But then....we've all had this discussion many times before........

 

[ashcat_lt]

There are plenty of ways to filter and distort and add noise to an audio signal. I don't really see it as trying to make it sound analog. I see it as trying to make it sound good. Well, I guess make it sound the way I think it should, which is not always the same thing! I personally prefer the level of control I get in the digital realm, and I can't justify the expense, the space, or the maintenance demands required to do what I do in analog.

 

[kip4]

This idea that digital is brittle is perpetuated my makers of usually digital gear who keep telling you that it has that "warm analogue feel" i think its just hype to try to sell more gear and that most of the time analogue had something differant namely "saturation" or for want of a better term distortion albiet a musical one.
I love my analogue gear but my digital is just as good if not better.
Learn to use what you have to make better recordings and enjoy the journey.
I've been there and i'm still learning.

 

[miroslav]

I personally prefer the level of control I get in the digital realm, and I can't justify the expense, the space, or the maintenance demands required to do what I do in analog.

Oh I agree....IMO, the best point about digital is the ability you have to edit/mangle/copy/change an audio signal.

There are also an unusual number of plug/apps designed for the specific purpose of making digital sound like analog....and they are sold as such.

AFA as real analog...yeah, I agree on that too, it's not simple and/or inexpensive to get into these days, and it certainly takes a major commitment to do so (I say this from personal experience), so the digital emulations often suffice for a lot of folks, and like someone said earlier, auditory memory doesn't last very long, so most who no longer have the analog, have forgotten how it sounds, and many have never even had it to begin with, which is what makes the whole analog emulation thing even funnier at times....like when someone who NEVER used a tape deck of any kind, is trying to dial in a tape simulation in his DAW... ....I mean....does that person even know what he is hearing?
Sure, he can just dial it in until it sounds good....but there's no way he can use that info to say that it IS like a real tape machine if he never used or heard one....so this whole digital emulation of analog has somewhat diluted the real analog gear and it's mainly a matter of convenience and price that makes folks beleive in it as much as they do.

 

[miroslav]

Oh...and just to say it again, I'm not an analog VS digital person. I think that's a silly argument to have that the two formats should be in some sort of combative scenario.
I'm an analog & digital guy...using both side-by-side.

If I want a tape sound, I track to tape, and if I want to edit and comp, I do it digitally, but I'm already set up for a hybrid approach and I kinda worked my way into that SOP over the years.
However, I think if I was going to start recording for the first time today....I would probably just take the ITB path since it is simpler to get into from scratch.

 

[Ethan Winer]

digital is probably closer to the real thing than analog.

Remove "probably" and you got it.

If you want to hear a brittle sound, record something to analog tape with Dolby, then play it back without Dolby.

--Ethan