Digi001 confusion

[woody777]

My band is looking to put together a small home recording studio to demo songs. We do not expect professional quality results, but we would like something a little more polished than your typical local band.

I'm a newbie, but our other guitar player has a lot of recording experience. He currently has a laptop with Pro Tools (not sure which version), an Mbox, two fairly nice condenser mics (don't know the models), an SM-57 and a few cheap vocal mics.

We plan to frame a small room in my basement and treat the room with some acoustical foam for a better recording environment and track one instrument at a time. We would like to continue to use Pro Tools because we already have it and we are familiar with it.

Our ultimate goal is to be able to track a full drum set with 8-10 mics and 8-10 simultaneously recorded tracks. Obviously, we need more mics, but here's my main question: can we acheive our goal with a Digi001 unit? They are so inexpensive and we have fairly limited funds, probably around $1000. And would we need a mixer? I've read the Digi001 can record 18 (I think???) simultaneous tracks, but it only has two mic pres - how does this work? What all do we need to make this setup work?

I didn't see a Pro Tools forum here? Is there a better website for information on using Pro Tools for a home studio?

Thanks!

 

[Synkrotron]

I've just checked the spec of the Mbox and it does seem a bit limiting with only 2 mic pre's plus stereo S/PDIF's. Am I correct in assuming that you can only record two tracks at a time with the Mbox?

I've also just checked the specs of the digi001. I'll accept a total of 18 inputs (2 with pre's, 8 analog line I/O and 8 ADAT lightpipe). By the way, is the Digi001 now a discontinued product?

Anyway, one option would be to go for an Behringer ULTRAGAIN PRO-8 DIGITAL ADA8000 which has eight mic pre's with ADAT output which would connect to the ADAT input of the Digi001.


andy

 

[bennychico11]

woody-
Check out this to help get you started:
http://www.protoolsforum.com/ProToolsLE1.html
Ask here or on this PTForum's site for more specifics if you still have questions, and I'll be glad to answer them.

Synkrotron you are correct with your two questions...that you answered

 

[Synkrotron]

Synkrotron you are correct with your two questions...that you answered

hey thanks ... not bad for a Sonar guy huh I've always fancied Protools but it was WAY out of my budget at the time I was getting set up... plus I use a lot of MIDI and PT was not the tool for MIDI back then... how things change

 

[woody777]

Thanks guys!

So, the Digi001 will work as long as the laptop will accept a PCI card (can a typical laptop accept a PCI card???) and as long as we have Pro Tools version 6.4 or older, correct?

And I understand that the Digi001 has 18 inputs to record 18 simultaneous tracks, but physically, how does that look? How/where do I hook everything up and do I need an additional interface, i.e. mixer, mic pres?

 

[bennychico11]

Thanks guys!

So, the Digi001 will work as long as the laptop will accept a PCI card (can a typical laptop accept a PCI card???) and as long as we have Pro Tools version 6.4 or older, correct?

And I understand that the Digi001 has 18 inputs to record 18 simultaneous tracks, but physically, how does that look? How/where do I hook everything up and do I need an additional interface, i.e. mixer, mic pres?

no, a laptop does not accept PCI cards. You have to get an external PCI "hub" of some sort and those are probably well out of your price range.
The 18 inputs come in the form of both analog and digital. You have 2 microphone inputs, 6 line level inputs (1/4"), 8 ADAT Optical, and 2 SPDIF.

 

[woody777]

Thanks bennychico!

Consider what we already have, what do you think is our best and most cost effective method to be able to track drums?

 

[Synkrotron]

Thanks bennychico!

Consider what we already have, what do you think is our best and most cost effective method to be able to track drums?

I've just had a poke around the internet and there are several solutions utilising either USB 2.0 or Firewire (does your laptop have firewire?).

Your version of Protools... does it only work with the Mbox or the other digidesign hardware? If not then there's not much you can do other than set up your drums through a conventional mixer (8/10/12 channels) and you'd have to get your mix right with that mixer before you record to two tracks.

If PT does work with other USB or Firewire interfaces then you'll need to do a bit of research around here and other BBS to try to establish which would be the best solution for your tight budget.

For instance, you could go the Behringer route (yeah I know, many are dead against Behringer stuff). You'd need a BCA 2000 which would get you connected to your laptop USB. You'd then need that ADA8000 plus two optical cables and this would allow you to connect your eight mics and in turn you'd connect the ADA8000 to your BCA 2000 via ADAT. This would cost well under $1000

I've had a look at the M-Audio FireWire 18/14 which is compatible with PT. Only two of the analog in's have pre's so you'd need more pre's. It does have ADAT however so you could still use something like the ADA8000 to get cheap pre's.


Looks like you've got more digging to do

 

[woody777]

Looks like you've got more digging to do

Always

Are you saying that if we used a conventional 8 channel mixer we could route that through the Mbox? I understand we would only mix down to two tracks and that we would really have to get the drum mix down ahead of time. But that's definitely an option - and a cheap one.

I think the laptop is a G4 Powerbook, it should have Firewire but I'm not sure. And I think we have an LE version of Pro Tools - shouldn't that work with the Digi001 or even Digi002?

 

[bennychico11]

Always

Are you saying that if we used a conventional 8 channel mixer we could route that through the Mbox? I understand we would only mix down to two tracks and that we would really have to get the drum mix down ahead of time. But that's definitely an option - and a cheap one.

I think the laptop is a G4 Powerbook, it should have Firewire but I'm not sure. And I think we have an LE version of Pro Tools - shouldn't that work with the Digi001 or even Digi002?

technically you could use a 96 channel console and mix down to 2 tracks if you wanted to...but it doesn't offer you the flexibility as a multitrack recorder would.
And yes, LE version of Pro Tools only works with 001, 002, Mbox, or Mbox2. However, keep in mind that the 001 doesn't work with any software above version 6.4.1.

 

[woody777]

So, I guess if we wanted to stay with PT, my best bet would probably be to get the Digi002r and a mixer with at least 4 additional mic pres if I wanted to track drums with 8 mics, correct? (I would opt to get the mixer as opposed to a mic preamp strip because it could double as a mixer for our practice PA).

Does that sound like a reasonable idea? What's a good little mixer with mic pres of similar quality to the Digi002? Preferrably powered so it can run PA speakers, or should we just get a seperate power amp or powered speakers?

 

[woody777]

What about this setup:

Digi002 rack
Mackie 1202VLZ pro
Presonus 4 channel headphone amp

Now I have 8 mic pres and I can record up to 18 simultaneous tracks, correct? And I could use the remaining channels to lay down scratch tracks while the drummer is recording - guitars using a POD or something similar, direct box for vocals, bass direct - and use a headphone amp so we can all hear? Am I on the right track here guys? Thanks for the help!

Also, are the mic pres in the Digi002 and the Mackie 1202 of similar quality?

 

[Synkrotron]

Have you ever considered tracking your drums with just 3 or 4 mics? You'll still have a slight problem with the amount of pre's and inputs to your laptop but it may keep things even simpler... although by the sound of it you already know what you want to do... just a thought.

I DI guitars through a GT-5 or Zoom pedal... not the best way to track guitars but if you're happy with the amp modelling that comes with the pod and the guitarist isn't bothered about getting a little feedback that you normally get when mic'ing his amp then DI'ing works for me.

What are you using the Mackie for? It's a 12/2 mixer I believe... would you be mixing your drums down to two channels with this? Personally I wouldn't do this...

Nice looking bit of kit the digi002r. I'd still be tempted to go ADAT and use something like that ADA8000 for you drum mic pre's. That would leave the 8 analog ins on your digi002r for your guitar, bass and vox.


interesting...

 

[bubbagump]

I would really consider something other than PT on a small budget. You are just making things hard on yourself really. If you are familiar with PT, you can pick up just about anyother DAW in 30 minutes. Getting away from PT substantially increases your options as there are a zillion good interfaces, VST/DX effects, and DAWs out there for relatively little money. Here are a few links:

http://www.multitrackstudio.com/
http://www.ntrack.com
http://www.mackie.com/products/tracktion2/index.html

All of the above are low cost DAW alternatives.

 

[Synkrotron]

So... I'd go this route:-

digi002r for $1195 (but doesn't that include the software? can you buy the hardware separately?)

ADA8000 for $230

HA4700 Powerplay Pro XL Headphone Amplifier for $110

Total = $1535

Well over your original budget but still cheaper than your proposed setup and I think it will work better.

All the drum mics run into the ADA8000 which then connects to the DIGI002r via ADAT

Vox + Bass + Guitars + whatever else up to 8 tracks all go directly into the DIGI002r

I'd choose the HA4700 over the Presonus offering only because you can do much more with it. I use one with my RME soundcard that has 8 analog outs and I can effectively send a different monitoring mix to each person (more vox to the singer, more drums to the drummer etc.). Takes a bit of messing around with the routings within Sonar but I'm sure that if Sonar can do it then PT should too.


what do you reckon?

 

[sixways]

The Digi 002r for $1,195 does include the software, being Protools LE. It just doesn't include the extra stuff (light versions of several products).

Everything else looks good to me though. I'd say the weakest link in your chain is the Behringer preamp, but you can update that later.

6

 

[woody777]

Have you ever considered tracking your drums with just 3 or 4 mics? You'll still have a slight problem with the amount of pre's and inputs to your laptop but it may keep things even simpler... although by the sound of it you already know what you want to do... just a thought.

I DI guitars through a GT-5 or Zoom pedal... not the best way to track guitars but if you're happy with the amp modelling that comes with the pod and the guitarist isn't bothered about getting a little feedback that you normally get when mic'ing his amp then DI'ing works for me.

What are you using the Mackie for? It's a 12/2 mixer I believe... would you be mixing your drums down to two channels with this? Personally I wouldn't do this...

Nice looking bit of kit the digi002r. I'd still be tempted to go ADAT and use something like that ADA8000 for you drum mic pre's. That would leave the 8 analog ins on your digi002r for your guitar, bass and vox.


interesting...

I would be using the Mackie for the additional 4 mic pres... 4 on the Mackie, 4 on the Digi002, 8 mic pres total. I've thought about less mics for the drums... but being a hard hitting rock band, drums are such a huge part of our sound. What is the ideal way to record a drumset? And what's a suitable budget way? (I'll be searching these forums for this, I'm sure it's been discussed to death).

Also, we would retrack guitars later using our own gear. The direct recording would just be a scratch track so the drummer isn't playing to a straight click and we can find the groove and get some emotion in there as well.

Also, the Mackie would double as a mixer for the PA at band practice.

bubbagump - I know what you're saying... but this is really our other guitar player's baby... and he wants to stick to ProTools. What do you use?

 

[Synkrotron]

I would be using the Mackie for the additional 4 mic pres... 4 on the Mackie

I'd need to double check but unless you can use some of the aux ends on the Mackie as additional outs then you'd only be able to track stereo drums rather than all four tracks. So this would perhaps be a sub mix of the toms...

Also, the Mackie would double as a mixer for the PA at band practice.

ah... I get your point... can't argue with that. Just get one of them plus the gear I've mentioned plus a nice big loan of ready cash

I must admit, that sort of outlay makes me shiver and I've normally linited my expenditure to around £1000/year on my gear (£1000 really only equates to $1000 despite the exchange rate... musical gear over hear is much dearer than "over there").

 

[woody777]

I think the Mackie should work... channels 1-4 have XLR mic pres and seperate 1/4" channel inserts on the back. Is that what I'm looking for?

And that way I would have 8 fairly decent quality mic pres instead of the Behringer unit. I haven't used any of this gear, but from reviews and this forum I would gather the Digi002 and the Mackie have better mic pres.

That will work, right?

 

[Synkrotron]

I'd say the weakest link in your chain is the Behringer preamp, but you can update that later.

I agree... but I've struggled to find anything that comes with 8 mic pre's and 2 times ADAT outputs. I'd be interested in alternatives myself because I'm using the mic pre's in my Behringer DDX3216 and if I had an alternative to the ADA8000 then I'v be able to bypass the DDX3216 pre's altogether