Digi Design 001 .. or .. Cakewalk Sonar XL?

  • Thread starter Thread starter P-Loc
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This is a case of apples and...uhh...little apples.

A better choice would be the Delta 10/10 with cakewalk sonar.

I'd go with the Delta just for flexibility. If you decide you like another type of software you can always switch with the Delta, Pro Tools is good but still kinda proprietary. I hear they are adding support for other DAW platforms but the only record from two ins of the Digi 001.
 
the 001 has 8 ins I think. And Sonar will soon support Digi hardware....

But I wouldn't want to be the guinnea pig. Plus there's no guarantee that the 001 one will work for anything else. Soundforge?? Wavelab??

-Jett
 
After recent experiences with the digi001, I would avoid it like a bad plague that will kill you...:)

The 001 does have a "wave driver" which allows other app's on a PC to use 2 I/O's. I am not aware of any plans at this point of digitech making a driver that will allow other PC app's to use ALL the I/O's. This would be a major new direction from their normal proprietary nature. I doubt it will happen. digidesign wants you to use ProTools ONLY!

About ProTools LE. I would avoid it for any number of reasons. First, plugins for it are much more expensive. Second, they include some DSP on the master buss sum that makes it nearly impossible to "clip" the master buss, no matter how hard you push a mixer channel to it. This effect causes the outputted volume of the mixed stereo track to sound much quieter. It also means you don't focus in on WHAT is causing the DSP to start working. I haven't found any way of disabling this on the master buss. Maybe another PT LE user can shed some light on this. I know for sure that this DSP is include in the verson 5.3 software because I read a rather involved article on another bbs that one of the code writers for digitech shared.

I didn't find any of the editing functions to be any more involved, or better than Sonar. In fact, I didn't find much of anything about PT LE that Sonar couldn't do. I did find plenty that PT COULDN'T do compared to Sonar, such as the much more involved MIDI capabilities of Sonar.

If straight recording, editing, mixing is your goal, and you don't need advanced MIDI functions, I would suggest Nuendo over Sonar. Nuendo sounds a little better at the master buss than Sonar does. It's included plugin's sound MUCH better than Sonar's do.

All of these applications (PT LE, Sonar, and Nuendo) either currently, or will soon support OMF (open media format) which means that you can share the audio files, complete with time stamps between them. It is my humble opinion that OMF will draw more users to other applications over PT. I am surprised that PT is going to support it frankly I can understand WHY they will support it, but I think it will in the end cause PT to take a back seat to other less expensive, easier to use applications. Anyway, just some thoughts and ramblings about that....

I would go with any ol' PC soundcard you choose (I seriously doubt there is much difference in how many of them actually sound....look for mature drivers and a easy to use hardware mixer interface when choosing...THOSE two things really define the difference between most low end multi I/O soundcards...) and Nuendo. Use Sonar if advanced MIDI capability is needed.

Good luck.

Ed
 
great points sonusman

Another thing I forgot to mention, the first time I ever saw a Digi 001 it was brought to my studio for installation for a friend. The card once installed caused a malfunction in the computer that prevented it from even turning on. The computer was bought because of it's designation as a compatible system. We tried the card in two other systems (both compatible according to Digidesign) and the same thing happened on every computer. It can be kind of hard to troubleshoot with no video. Getting help from Digidesign was a joke. To this day the poor dude has $800 worth of garbage on his hands.
 
Thats a shitty story, but there's many many more of people that love their 001. I personally wouldn't be happy with anything else. The only thing I miss is no good softsampler. The only thing I can say about the 001 is that it lets me do what I want to do, and logic and cubase I think are just a pain in the ass and get in the way of the recording process instead of helping....
 
Indeed. I had to do 4 installs on the studios new DAW to get it rolling with the digi001 on it. I installed it first on the first 2 installs, and installed it last on the last two installs. The second 2 installs, the computer ran very well and stable BEFORE the 001 was installed. When the 001 was installed (yes, most current drivers, and I followed the suggested installation steps to a tee...) problems started. There is still an issue with installing a newer version of Waves plugin's when the PT software is installed. We had to go back to an older version which doesn't sound as good to keep it all working.

I have never seen a soundcard that had so many problems to tell you the trust (except the piece of shit Alesis ADAT PCI card..but that is a whole other type of problem...). The Wave Driver is mostly a joke on the 001, and PT software just isn't all that great to justify ONLY using it.

I would avoid the 001. I have read of many problems with the 002 too, so that is not much of an option.

If you intend to use the 001, I would possibly try it on a 98SE box instead of XP Pro. Also, digitech recommends a VIA chipset (which counters just about EVERY other soundcard on the market which usually ask for the AMD chipset as the preference....weird eh?)

I just don't think the 001 is worth it at all. digitech has little experience in the PC market and it would seem that they haven't got the drivers right yet. This could take them a couple years to get right (literally). Also, RTAS plugin's are just plain expensive. ProTools also has "that sound", and I am tired of "that sound" from ProTools, and I haven't been able to get "that sound" from coming through. I don't LIKE "that sound" at all....

Nuendo and Sonar for me!!!

Another thing about the 001, it doesn't have ANY word clock I/O on it!!!! That in my opinion is a MAJOR ommission in the hardware design, ESPECIALLY in a PC! The computers internal clock just isn't stable enough to provide high quality clock to converters. Your only other option on using an external clock on the 001 is to use other converters that are sync'ed to another clock. That is BS. At that point, the digi001 just becomes a digital I/O card, and I can find MUCH cheaper digital I/O cards out there.

The Delta 1010 isn't a very exciting sounding soundcard in my opinion. I know a lot of guys like them, but compared to my Lynx One card, the converters on the 1010 just don't seem to have the same "depth" and "clarity" to the sound.

I stated earlier that all the lower end multi I/O cards are going to sound about the same. This COULD be a bit different with an external word clock, but I haven't experimented with it yet to know for sure. I still say that the hardware mixer and quality of the driver is the most important thing, yet seems to be two things most people don't investigate very well before purchasing a card. The 1010's hardware mixer is okay, but the metering on it sucks major butt. I just ignore it and use my ears.

Ed
 
Sonusman.....

In February Sonar is coming out with drivers that will support ALL Digi hardwarde. It's a bizarre new direction. But it's happening. Check out the press releases on Harmony Central.

Again I would never want to be the unpaid 'beta tester' for anything like that. Probably more interesting for people who already own Digi stuff, and are fed up with the limitations of PT Lite.

Hopefully its not a sign that Sonar will be purchased by Digi. That would suck. I like Sonar. Sonar is a great value--ProTools is not.

-Jett
 
Yeah, that WOULD suck if Cakewalk even sold out to digitech.

ProTools was simply the first multitrack recording/mixing software that actually worked with a LOT of tracks. It's overall quality per se is NOT really any better than other applications. I have worked on productions on and off for the last 5 years that have gone through a ProTools rig at some point. At best, it didn't get in the way when other converters were used, and when NO DSP via PT was used.

I agree that it isn't worth it's high price tag as a straight up editor/mixing platform compared to what else is out there now, considering the proprietary nature of PT.

Anyway, just rambling....I am not a PT fan, and probably never will be. I try to avoid using it as much as possible, and would rather invest in other companies.

Ed
 
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