Differences in high end / low end gear

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ninjasuperstar8

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Hey guys

I have no idea what I am looking for when talking about mics, compressors preamps etc. I currently use sm57's /58's and a blue baby bottle that I got off e-bay for mics, and a few ART preamps.

I know this sounds dumb but what differences would I expect to hear if I bought a $2,000 mic vs a $400 one or a $300 preamp vs a $1500 one and so forth. I'm new at all this so I don't really know what I would be listening for or what I am expecting to hear and unlike testing guitar amps I can't test different mics, preamps or compressors... I just kind of have to buy based on reviews. And if I spend $2000 on a mic or preamp I definitely want to know what to expect.

Thanks
 
That's just it...knowing what you're hearing.

For someone without much analytical audio listening experience...the best thing is to A/B gear, side-by-side...and then you can immediately hear the difference. Now, even if you can do that, and hear the differences...you may not still be able to clearly make sense of those difference...like, the expensive mic sound brighter in the upper mids than the cheap mic...but what does that really mean to you.
Hearing that difference alone won't really tell you if that's better or if that's worth the extra $$$.
For that, it's more about time and experience using a variety of gear in a variety of situations...and eventually you learn what's what and how it all works together, and when will the $100 mic be the better choice over the $1000 mic...etc...etc.

That said...if you are buying real quality (not just a high price tag)...that gear is often better built, uses high-end components, last longer, and tends to get you closer/faster to a good sound without as much effort. Of course, some experience in using it is also needed.

For mics and pres (especially pres)...if you can buy up scale...do it.
With mics, there are a lot of inexpensive mics that are bread-n-butter studio mics, but also lots of great high-end mics. Of all audio gear...high-end/quality mics and pres almost NEVER lose value, and no matter how many upgrades/changes come with all your other recording gear...the mics and pres will always be needed, and they won't go out of favor with age.
 
ninjasuperstar8 said:
Hey guys
I know this sounds dumb but what differences would I expect to hear if I bought a $2,000 mic vs a $400 one or a $300 preamp vs a $1500 one and so forth. I'm new at all this so I don't really know what I would be listening for or what I am expecting to hear and unlike testing guitar amps I can't test different mics, preamps or compressors... I just kind of have to buy based on reviews. And if I spend $2000 on a mic or preamp I definitely want to know what to expect.

Thanks
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Well, ninjasuperstar, the answer - like most real answers - is that it depends.

First of all, what is is that you want to do? Record albums for a living? Or record some demos? Or just dick around in your room layering up some guitar instrumentals?

The first thing you should do is realize that you already have good stuff. It's like wondering if your airplane is a good enough. It's flying, k?

There is better gear to be had. But I doubt very seriously that you are using the gear you have to its potential.

That said, my theory is that you should buy one quality bit of gear at a time, learn to use it, what its strengths and weaknesses are, and then pick up another bit of kit that will complement that strength or make up for that weakness. And so on and so on. As you go along, you will discover what you need. Otherwise, you'll wind up with a pile of stuff you don't use. A corollary to that theory is that you shouldn't sell gear. To me, it just means you shouldn't have bought it.

Don't worry about compressors now. Use plugins until you know what you like and how much you're going to be using it.

Sound isn't the only desirable feature in quality gear. Craftsmanship, aesthetics, durability (and yes, resale value) should also factor into your decision. I think if you buy something of high quality, you're unlikely to have to buy another.

Same thing with mics. Get something durable and reputable for its quality. I love quality dynamics for vocals, and I think a pair of quality multipattern condensers are handy for lots of other sources. I have a nice pair of SDCs that I use for acoustic guitars, but I could just as easily use one of my 4050s. You've got an SM57.

I'm out of the preamp buying game, so I don't know what the current bang for your buck is. I bought a Great River MP 2NV, and it's my only "boutique" pre. It sounds great. Does it sound four times greater than my JoeMeek TwinQ? Not really.

If you get something you'll keep forever, you won't worry about what an upgrade might sound like.

Just bending your ear. Welcome to HR.
 
The Blue Baby Bottle isn't exactly entry level gear.
It's mid level and by many accounts, as good as a lot of the high end stuff.
Mics generally go way up in quality at around the $250 mark and again at the $700 mark.
Preamps start getting really good at around $700 although the Joe Meek 3Q and the Golden Age Pre 73 are kind of exceptions to that.
The ears can take a couple of years to catch up though.
 
its easy to get caught up in crazy expensive gear - you DONT need it. keep your mics and look into MASTER SOFTWARE - download the demo of fl studio - there are mastering plugins - master your basic wavs recordings and listen to all the cool sounds you can get from compressors settings and eq
 
Expensive mics make it harder to get bad results. Cheaper ones can be VERY sensitive to where you place them and how you use them, and stuff. Plus some warranty stuff and quality control. i.e. any Two are a matched pair, versus even a matched pair isn't even a matched pair. Preamps are not that dramatic. A little bit of extra gain, a little bit of lower noise, and stuff. But if you don't have a high(er) end monitoring environment, you'd be hard pressed to notice a difference in a lot of cases. Now the difference between an Art Tube MP and a DMP3 is very noticeable. A DMP3 and a ??? less so. Past a certain price point, it's pretty much just the name dropping value that you're paying for.
 
bweston said:
its easy to get caught up in crazy expensive gear - you DONT need it. keep your mics and look into MASTER SOFTWARE - download the demo of fl studio - there are mastering plugins - master your basic wavs recordings and listen to all the cool sounds you can get from compressors settings and eq
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Never give advise again....please? Thank you....
 
thanks for the advice guys!!! seems like I just have to buckle down and record until I realize what my current gear can and can't do then figure out the sound I am looking for. As for monitors, I am using KRK rockit 6's and my "control room" doesnt have any foam or blankets to optimize acoustics or anything, right now its just a desk in a room haha
 
All I have is a $10 tray table.

You can improve things with blankets and foam. Depending on the blankets and depending on the foam. Optimize has limits with most spaces. Budget is only one of those limits.
 
Shadow_7 said:
You can improve things with blankets and foam.
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You can reduce HF. Blankets and foam do nothing to treat the lows, and most frequently cause problems with the room to be significantly worse. If all you're doing is vocals, then go for it. If you're recording anything with any real low end energy, you'll need to do better than blankets and foam. Despite what our more creative members might tell you.

Peruse the studio construction forum downstairs for technical reasons why this is so.
 
I'd have to say having just upgraded some mics and pres and outboard processors to "better" quality that things just come together faster and easier than with "lower end" stuff I replaced. there's less battling he gear to get what you want

It seems like there is far, far less need to try and get the tracks to "fit" with EQ and other tricks in the mix.
Maybe a big part of it is that I just passed my 2 year recording aniversary and am starting to get some of this stuff but I noticed a massive difference in a song I tracked 2 months ago on my old gear versus the one I finished yesterday with new gear, in terms of the raw tracks sounding 90% of the way to being a song just from throwing up the faders with my new gear versus having to fight with the gear to get what I want with the old equipment

Of course better is a subjective thing and as always YMMV
 
Better gear is ....well better. It's pretty simple really. Sure you have to learn how to use it properly so RTFM and try stuff out.
That high end sound is a combination of great playing, gear, room, ears. But I'd be lying if I told you a cassette sounds better than a good pre into the computer.
 
To start with you will see no difference between high end and low end gear. Just starting out everything is going to sound kind of ass until you learn what you're doing. There are guys out there who could get better result with shitty gear than I could with the best gear. It takes practice to make gear sound good. I would recommend going for middle-of-the-range gear. You don't want outgrow what you've got too quickly, but you don't want to spend a fortune starting out.
 
Bristol Posse said:
with my new gear versus having to fight with the gear to get what I want with the old equipment
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What gear did you upgrade from and what new stuff did you get??

Thanks for the advise guys, yah I think I'm getting a little more understanding since I posted this from reading everyones posts and reading some books I have. On a different topic, do you guys all use Diffusers and or Foam to change the sound in the room??
 
ninjasuperstar8 said:
What gear did you upgrade from and what new stuff did you get??
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I went from Shure mics like sm57, sm7, sm137 to mid level Neuman mics like KM184 and TLM102
I added a Universal audio 610 preamp and a Universal Audio 1176 compressor
The SM7 gets a lot of good press and it works for a lot of people, I thought it worked for me too until i tried the Neuman!

ninjasuperstar8 said:
On a different topic, do you guys all use Diffusers and or Foam to change the sound in the room??
Click to expand...
Not foam but broad band bass trapping like rigid fiberglass, take a look in the studio building forum for more info on why foam is only suitable for very specific circumstances
 
With enough space and enough foam and blankets, even the lows can be treated. Granted that many things are far more efficient than those two things for a particular goal versus the space and material required to reach said goal on the cheap. But if it becomes a $$$ war $$$ of a single bass trap for part of one wall versus one or two coats of acoustic blankets around the whole room. With enough left over for beer. I'm gonna chose the beer, err blankets. And maybe get a deal on a couple of bean bag chairs for the corners.

In terms of my cheap cheap mics and my expensive-ish pair. The cheap ones can sound a bit harsh / un-natural sounding. They still sound good, but there's just something there that rubs me. Where my more costly ones can be almost boring in comparison. To the point of boosting highs to try and make them less natural and more attention getting. When I upgrade past this level, I'm hoping to have the best of both worlds and a simplified editing process. i.e. Normalize, trim, post. i.e. NOT Oversample, edit to pieces, resample, resample, resample to try and soften the edits.
 
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