Didgiridoos

[Scoot]

Don't know if I spelt that right but my mate plays a didgiridoo and needs some advice on what mic to purchase re live gigging and also recording. Anyone that can give us a "heads up" on what to buy would be much appreciated.
Thanks in advance

Scoot

 

[ausrock]

Don't know if I spelt that right but my mate plays a didgiridoo and needs some advice on what mic to purchase re live gigging and also recording. Anyone that can give us a "heads up" on what to buy would be much appreciated.
Thanks in advance

Scoot

DIDGERIDOO..................got it?

OK, to a degree, a lot can depend on the type/size of Didge your mate has and the tonality he gets from it. Also, what you need for live work could be different to what you need for recording.

If you have access to a PA hire company, I'd suggest talking to them and hiring anything they feel may be suitable from their hire stock.........try it out and go from there.

 

[Jeff_D]

The SM57 is by far the industry standard didgeridoo mic. Every Didgeridoo I've seen both on stage and in the studio has a 57 jammed right up in the thing n stuff. </sarcasm>


ok ok, I've never seen a didgeridoo in person. And I've never seen anyone try to mic one... but, if it were me, for studio, I'd go for a small diaphragm condenser a couple feet back. Might be able to use that live too, otherwise, I'd go with a quality dynamic mic.

 

[moresound]

I'd go for a small diaphragm condenser a couple feet back. Might be able to use that live too, otherwise, I'd go with a quality dynamic mic.

This is more likely the best way to go. ^^^^^^
live and recording a didgi I've used an Earth works microphone but they are on the expensive side.
But start with what Jeff_D suggested and go with a SM57 and see if you like how it's capturing the sound. If you don't try any cheap SDC and see if you like that but I'm sure you'll like the 57.

 

[Jeff_D]

On a serious note, in general, when I have an acoustic "type" instrument and I want to capture the instrument just like it sounds "in real life", I'll go for a SD Condenser. In my limited experience, a SD condenser is more prone to feedback on stage (that could just be me), so a dynamic with a cardiod or hyper cardiod pattern would be better for a live application. AS far as good dynamic mics, in every application I've tried, I prefer an Audix I5 over an SM57 and they're the same price.

 

[Shadow_7]

If it's a big one you might want something with a good low end. MD421? D6? Factor in the wind tube and it might be better to record slightly off axis. I favor an SDC myself, but a didgeroo might be more percussion like in practice. And an SDC might lack the low end needed. Baring a few exceptions (QTC50 / MKH 8040/8020).

 

[Supercreep]

I'd use an LDC to grab as much bass response as I could. I'd also try to back the mic off as much as a few feet to try and capture the entire instrument/performer, and not just the sound coming out the end.

 

[mshilarious]

SDCs have no bass? Hmmm, seems like some need to reread the big thread

 

[Supercreep]

SDCs have no bass? Hmmm, seems like some need to reread the big thread

I read every response in this thread, and nobody said SDCs have no bass.

Instead of being cryptic, why don't you share some of your knowledge?

 

[Supercreep]

Yeah, I'm not reading 13+ pages just to find out what the hell MSH is talking about.

I'd still choose an LDC over an SDC for digeridoo, because I think it would sound better.

:shrugs:

 

[Greg_L]

LDC or Ribbon.

 

[mshilarious]

I read every response in this thread, and nobody said SDCs have no bass.

And an SDC might lack the low end needed.

I'd use an LDC to grab as much bass response as I could.

Instead of being cryptic, why don't you share some of your knowledge?

Well the search function seems to have taken the night off, but here is the big thread:

http://www.itrstudio.com/MIC_CHAT.PDF

Harvey quotes David Satz on pg. 4 describing transducer design, also on pg. 3 Harvey discusses diaphragm size vs. low-frequency response. Important point for pressure mics: their low-frequency response is not limited by operating principle, since they are just responding to changes in pressure. Their lower limit is set by their pressure vent--could be as low as 5 Hz or so.

Pressure gradient mics are more complicated. Remember that pressure gradient mics create their polar patterns via signal difference between the sides of the diaphragm. If there is no delay or attenuation, there is no response.

Let's think only about low frequencies: when you have no delay, then the pressure on either side of the diaphragm from a faraway source (in other words, the source is effectively planar) will be the same--therefore, no response. As you get closer to the source, the path length difference creates a difference in magnitude (inverse square law), and you get a response. This is proximity effect.

Of course cardioid mics aren't pure pressure gradient transducers, they are blends of pressure and pressure gradient, so real-world will be in between. Still, the bass response of any cardioid mic, whether large or small diaphragm, is always going to be a function of distance to source, and not a function of diaphragm size.

Except for teensy tiny cardioid condenser capsules, they generally don't have very good bass response, that's because their delay chambers are so small that they can't generate a very effective path length difference. Such capsules are generally designed for special purposes, such as close-micing drums, so far-field use isn't anticipated.

But any of the common SDC cardioids, say the SM81-class or equivalent, I don't think there should be a problem with them. And of course, any directional mic a few inches from a didg is going to have plenty of proximity effect. You might actually be struggling with too much bass . . . so position the mic according to the bass response you want.

What do you get with an LDC? Well, larger variations in response, which maybe you like, which is fine. You also get less high-frequency response. That could create a psychoacoustic impression of more low-frequency response, but that's not actually true. So use an LDC if you like, no harm, but please don't say, as Shadow_7 did, that SDCs might lack bass response. Maybe crappy ones do, but that's not a principle of physics. Crappy LDCs could lack bass response for the same reason.


Oh, and p. 29 talks about didg.


More on this topic:

on omnis, from DPA:

http://www.dpamicrophones.com/en/Microphone-University/Technology-Guide/Large Diaphragm.aspx

or a version of the DPA document that also discusses directional mics:

http://www.sengpielaudio.com/LargeVsSmallDiaphragms-TwoParts.pdf

 

[Supercreep]

Interesting, and thank you.

To my ears, I hear more stick and more "ping" on the cymbals, and an overall more articulate sound from an SDC. I never thought of it as a diminished HF response before, but I guess the LDC delivers the sound I'm looking for in a cymbal for other reasons than bass response.

I've got to stop experimenting with psychoacoustics.

 

[Shadow_7]

I didn't say that they had NO bass. I'm just saying that they lack bass relative to some other options. Or should I say pressence? All attack, no pressence. There are obviously a LOT of mics that you WOULDN'T use on ORGAN. Even though they are fine mics with a decent low end. And didgeridoo being a pipe of varying lenghts....

 

[stevieb]

I have no idea what mic might be best, but I am going to take this opportunity to say that I am hugely suspicious of Didge "players." Oh, I'm sure they are fine people, and true musicians, and all that, but here are the two things I suspect:

1. That they are actually vocalizing, or humming, into the thing. Oh, they say it takes some kind of other-worldy technique that is so secret that only Austrailain bushmen and the CIA know how it's actually done, but I think they are simply humming.

2. All that talk about "circular breathing" is a total load of bull crap. Austrailian back country bull crap, perhaps- but still bull crap. SUCH A THING IS NOT POSSIBLE. Our lungs, treac, and diaphram just don't work that way.

A good friend of mine is a touring musician, and he pumps out that bull shit. I won't say his name, 'cause I don't want to hurt his career, but I swear, when he starts in on that shit, I just want to slap him.

 

[mshilarious]

I didn't say that they had NO bass. I'm just saying that they lack bass relative to some other options. Or should I say pressence? All attack, no pressence. There are obviously a LOT of mics that you WOULDN'T use on ORGAN. Even though they are fine mics with a decent low end. And didgeridoo being a pipe of varying lenghts....

Organs are almost universally recorded with SDCs, typically omnis. But I still fundamentally disagree that SDC, even cardioids, "lack bass relative to some other options". That's just false, or at least so dependent on individual models that it's useless as a rule of thumb. Go argue with DPA about it.

I agree with Harvey's description of a didg as a pipe, but you can't mic each pipe on an organ, so you have to use a mic with good far-field bass response, which normally means an omni. On a didg, you can use proximity effect to make up for the directional mic's lack of far-field bass response.

Also, you have an affinity for using terms of art, but with your own definition. "Presence" is one of those words.

 

[Shadow_7]

Art? isn't it all art? Perhaps I should use "core" or "fundamental" instead of "pressence"? As others use terms like thin to describe cheap mics. In terms of SDCs < $500 and < 1/2" and OMNI in nature, the low end is questionable IMO. More so at a distance. At least for those voices in the Bass / Tuba / Organ / .... range. I'll admit that my exposure is limited and SDC might be a broader term than I'm using. And a lot of this is mic specific. As many mics > $1K and SDC do have abilities that others lack.

-----

Circular breathing is a fact. It's a function of filling your oral cavity with an amount of air and expelling that air while you quickly breathe in through the nose. If it wasn't a fact, Kenny G would never be able to hold a note for 45 minutes (or maybe he's just an alien). Principly the same as that air bag on a set of bagpipes. Although very hard to do well in practice. And mostly impractical to do in large ensembles.

 

[mshilarious]

Art? isn't it all art? Perhaps I should use "core" or "fundamental" instead of "pressence"? As others use terms like thin to describe cheap mics. In terms of SDCs < $500 and < 1/2" and OMNI in nature, the low end is questionable IMO. More so at a distance. At least for those voices in the Bass / Tuba / Organ / .... range.

The bass response of a true pressure omni mic (which would be all of the <$500 omni SDCs I can think of) does not vary with distance. You are describing a directional mic, not an omni. Therefore I would question your observation.

"Fundamental" also has a specific musical meaning. A microphone has no idea what frequency is the fundamental of any note on given instrument it is recording.

I'll admit that my exposure is limited and SDC might be a broader term than I'm using.

SDC = small diaphragm condenser. Therefore, the term applies to a microphone with a condenser (capacitor) capsule that has a diaphragm size of 1/2" or less, irrespective of polar pattern.

 

[Supercreep]

I have no idea what mic might be best, but I am going to take this opportunity to say that I am hugely suspicious of Didge "players." Oh, I'm sure they are fine people, and true musicians, and all that, but here are the two things I suspect:

1. That they are actually vocalizing, or humming, into the thing. Oh, they say it takes some kind of other-worldy technique that is so secret that only Austrailain bushmen and the CIA know how it's actually done, but I think they are simply humming.

Nope. It's lips flapping like a raspberry. No humming at all. The changing the shape of your lips while blowing creates the modulation.

2. All that talk about "circular breathing" is a total load of bull crap. Austrailian back country bull crap, perhaps- but still bull crap. SUCH A THING IS NOT POSSIBLE. Our lungs, treac, and diaphram just don't work that way.

Not only is it possible, it is fairly common.

The mouth is a bellows that can be used to continue a note while a breath is taken in through the nose.

You just tried it, and it's hard - but not impossible by a long shot.

 

[moresound]

A few old time trumpet players I know said that it took them some time to master circular breathing but once they got it it becomes 2nd nature.
Damed if I can do it though, I have enough trouble tapping my head and rubbing my stomach at the same time! Probably the same reason that I can't drum to save my life.