Diagnose My Bass, (long post)

Atom Bomb

Atom Bomb

Wtf is a PRS
I recently Picked up an Epi Thunderbird Pro IV.

It has treated me well for the last year, but as of late i noticed a few things.

1. Muddy E String. Didn't pop, or sound a crystal as the a,d,g strings. Thinking it was dead i replaced the strings... same deal. Bummer. Upon further inspection i noticed that the bottom of the e string sat closer to the pickups then the rest of the strings.

So i adjust this thing... (no picture right becasue apparently all my images aren't valid image files, thanks HR.com) two set screws that raise and lower the strings height at the bridge.

IT got less muddy but still doesnt have that pop.

So i am wondering if it may be the pick ups ????


2. Having done that kinda messed with my intonation? But i assumed to adjust that i use the other screw that moves the bridge piece backwards and forwards.... Well no matter how many miniscule turns i turn that screw i cant ever hit that sweet spot in my intonation?

And the intonation on my A and G don't seem to be right at all when played together higher up. For instance they can be perfectly intune, when hit open, and when i play A on the 12th fret and g on the 12 fret they appear to be in tune on my tuner.

Now if i play a power chord for instance up there like on A 12th fret, ITS NOT IN TUNE?????




Having said all of that I live in Northern Alberta and it is dry as hell. I just got my acoustic back from the repair man i am wondering if maybe this bass is beggining to dry up like my acoustic guitar did which would b giving me these intonation issues.

OR could the neck be warped or the truss rod need some looking into?

I don't know.


Need help.

Id rather not go back to the repair man he soaked me pretty good on my acoustic.
 
Intonation is intonation, and has nothing to do with pickup height. Well, in the worst case scenario, the pickup is so close to the string it might actually pull it out of tune. But that's extreme. Lowering the pickup will only lower the output slightly, and it might be perceived as being 'thinner' sounding. That won't touch the intonation at all.
In a nutshell, the intonation is how well that string plays in tune up the neck. There are compromises in the fret placement, so it is never really in tune all up the neck. You accept compromises. The 12th fret should be exactly in the middle between the nut and the bridge saddle, but with these compromises, it varies. String diameter also gets taken into account. So your low 'E' is furthest back, and the 'G' is closer to the nut.
The harmonic might not be the same as the 12th fret if the intonation is off a little. You can hit the harmonic where you think it is the 12th fret, but isn't. You can't fake fingering the 12th fret.
Find a different repairman, maybe sending the bass to Edmonton or Calgary, depending on where you are and where the original 'soaker' is. Check around on the reputation on any repairman. Even if you get a good recommendation, keep checking. You may get three people in a row who love the guy, and then ten people after that hate the guy! So check twice.
I haven't toured through Alberta for years, but Cherry's Guitar usually got good reviews. Long & McQuade was always hit-or-miss. Some had amazing repair techs, and others didn't. Who else? There was Max, and Jeff Berger. That's all I know.
 
ranjam said:
Intonation is intonation, and has nothing to do with pickup height. .
Click to expand...

yea, sorry to make you write so much rammerjammer but i didn't say anything about the pick up height. Just that my e-strings was sitting closer to the pick ups then the rest.



But thanks for the repair man reccomendations. I have heard of Cherrys Guitars but im like, 5 hours away from there. And the L&M here is very hit or miss. I may keep plucking away at it, i did some light reading last night and aside from the truss rod i think i am capeable of zeroing in on the issue.

I figured getting it intonated and getting the proper action set would be take 5 minutes.


I gues id wanna add a few minutes being a newb and all.
 
I talked ot a buddy last night and he just told flat out that if have exhausted all my resources and everything is still wonky to just leave it and take it to a pro and pay the bucks.

He thinks where it is an Epiphone it may very well be a dud.... :( :confused:

It really sucks.

I absolutely love the tones im getting out of my A, D and G strings i want that E to be just as sweet. . . . and intonated.
 
Atom Bomb said:
I talked ot a buddy last night and he just told flat out that if have exhausted all my resources and everything is still wonky to just leave it and take it to a pro and pay the bucks.

He thinks where it is an Epiphone it may very well be a dud.... :( :confused:

It really sucks.

I absolutely love the tones im getting out of my A, D and G strings i want that E to be just as sweet. . . . and intonated.
Click to expand...

On the first point your buddy is correct. On the second he is not.

There is plenty of info in here about adjusting intonation and what causes the problems inherent to stringed instruments. As far as the low e being less defined that is often a result of the frequencies that a bass has to work with. The only physical problems with the bass would be the position of the pickup, is it detecting the e string as well as the other strings? Is the string vibrating freely? check the nut and the sadlle to make sure it is making a good clean contact. You've ruled out a dud string by replacing them.
 
muttley600 said:
On the first point your buddy is correct. On the second he is not.

There is plenty of info in here about adjusting intonation and what causes the problems inherent to stringed instruments. As far as the low e being less defined that is often a result of the frequencies that a bass has to work with. The only physical problems with the bass would be the position of the pickup, is it detecting the e string as well as the other strings? Is the string vibrating freely? check the nut and the sadlle to make sure it is making a good clean contact. You've ruled out a dud string by replacing them.
Click to expand...

totly not a dud string. And i have checked, measured, screwed, lifted twisted tuned everything in my capability EXCEPT fucking with the truss rod.

I'm not comfortable with that i dont think. Nor do i understand it. I'll watch some vids and do some reading tonight. MEh...


Thanks the tips multi.


and others.
 
Not a truss rod issue. It's hard to explain, but I remember Dan Erlewine (Google the name) saying years ago that he thought as you mess with the intonation screw back and forth you can actually create flat spots on the underside of a round wound string, which can mess with the tone after all is said and done. His solution was to start with the saddle all the way back and move it forward. Any flat spots after the saddle won't matter, but if you have one before the saddle from pulling the saddle back, then you can have trouble. I think I explained it right. It made more sense in my mind when he drew pictures.
 
I have an Epi T Bass.
Is the string gauge the stock gauge that came with the bass?

I find on mine that it's too light a gauge, so yeah, the A, D and G have plenty of bright pop, but like Muttley said, the E, because of it's low frequency, manages to still come off fat, even "woofy" compared to the others. You might try a step lighter just on the low E and see if it brings it closer to the sound of the upper three.
 
miroslav said:
I have an Epi T Bass.
Is the string gauge the stock gauge that came with the bass?

I find on mine that it's too light a gauge, so yeah, the A, D and G have plenty of bright pop, but like Muttley said, the E, because of it's low frequency, manages to still come off fat, even "woofy" compared to the others. You might try a step lighter just on the low E and see if it brings it closer to the sound of the upper three.
Click to expand...


this...... yes. This indeed. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Yea it has no sparkle or anything it just woofs and hums. Exactly that.


But still doesn't solve my intonation issues, but i can see there being a shred of truth to ranjam's tip too?
 
Atom Bomb said:
this...... yes. This indeed. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Yea it has no sparkle or anything it just woofs and hums. Exactly that.


But still doesn't solve my intonation issues, but i can see there being a shred of truth to ranjam's tip too?
Click to expand...

Have you considered an exorcism? Perhaps demons are haunting your E-string....
 
It's a thunderbird dude.... I gave it to the local Shaman and let it spend a few days in a sweat lodge....


It did not help.
 
Good monday all... So here is the lastest update..

yes ... It takes me forever, My day job is taxing as fuck and doesn't leave me much free time.


So,


I have done my research and i have crossed a few bridges.

I changed the strings on my bass got a slightly lighter string RE: The frequency issues, and i set the action to where it should be. I even broke out the calipers to ensure the exact distance from the bottom of the string to each pick up.

I spent an entire afternoon getting the intonation correct. in terms of the open note and 12th fret...


Now the mystery....

My 'A' String is perfectly in tune when plucked open and plucked on the 12th....But when i fret a B Note.... It a few cents flat and not in tune.....


W
T
F


Again i'll go back to truss rod...? Warped neck ?


Stumped.

I'm starting to loose my cool demeanor.
 
Also i forgot to mention that the 'E' String still doesn't sound the same as the other three strings. It is better but still funny sounding.
 
as someone else mentioned, fret placement is a compromise and no guitar or bass will be exactly in tune at every fret. No amount of adjusting will change this .... it's an inherent issue with all fretted instruments.
Someone may come in and object that the wavey fretted axes manage to correct that issue but that doesn't change the fact that on normal instruments the tuning varies some as you play different frets ..... period. You or anyone else cannot fix this .... it's just how it is.

Also ..... a few cents is not much ..... there's 100 cents in a half step so a few cents is a few 1/100ths of a half step off.
It may show up on a tuner but shouldn't be a problem while playing. And the truss rod isn't a part of adjusting intonation so don't go there. Warped necks are also not generally a contributer to intonation problems unless it's so warped that the string is far away from the fretboard and thus bends the string out of tune when you press it all the way down. But you would have been complaining about that from a playing standpoint already so that's not gonna be it either.

The low E can sound different than the other strings because it's always so much bigger. Even in light guages it's still large which affects how it vibrates.
Don't assume that there MUST be a way to adjust that. There might not be ...... different axes will have their own characteristic sounds and it may be that your particular bass will always have that issue.
 
***!UPDATE!***

This bass is fixed. And it just.. epic... epic .. epic...

Such an insane backstory to it all i'd be here for ever writing it, but i"ll just say this...

The jerk that thought he pulled the wool over my eyes by selling me a used bass for full retail as new....


Lost the battle.


This bass had a previous owner that tried upgrading all the epi parts wit hGibson T-Bird parts and just fucked it all up. Previous owner took it to the same repair guy i use...

Repair guy totally remembered it and told me it will not be a cheap fix as there was ALOT wrong with it, but would be totally worth it.

He was right... this bass is now a one of kind and plays and sounds so effin amazing....


Thanks for all your help and stuff gang.
 
They are. Veyr much so.

I mean i still feel kind of dickish about not spotting a used guitar labelled as new. in my defense to the naked eye there wasn't a whole lot wrong with it ... So yea... My bad.

But some of the parts buddy tried to customize it with in the end kinda paid for themselves, or came free depending on how you look at it.

So all in all yay me.

If it weren't for you guys i wouldn't have discovered this.
 
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