destructive vs nondestructive effects

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dachay2tnr

dachay2tnr

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I'm trying to understand the application of audio effects in Cakewalk PA9. If I understand the distinction between destructive and nondestructive... applying effects destructively means that I am modifying the original wave file(s). Therefore if I later decide I don't like the effect and want to remove it, "sorry, too late, you lose", right? Is this true even if I haven't resaved the .wrk file yet, or does it only become irreversable when you save?

Also, are the only nondestructive effects the ones you apply in the Console View? Therefore, applying effects in all the other views applies them destructively?

I like to tinker a lot with my files and try various different effects, but obviously I'm concerned about modifying the original files to a point where they are unrecoverable in their original state. Is the answer only to do it in Console view?

Your exhalted wisdom and counsel is appreciated.
 
Yes, you are correct. Destructive effects modify the wave and dimimish the quality. You can go back with undo only until you save . . . then you're toast.
I think all the effects that are in Console are the same as the ones in main drop list . . . haven't noticed a difference, but there is a column in track view where you can right click and add non-destructive effects the same way as in console view. It's right there next to "Vel+" and, hey, it's labeled "Effects".
Remember, non-destructive effects, specifically Reverb, take a lot of horsepower. If you have mutiple tracks that require the same effect, consider using an aux send and assigning one effect to a number of tracks.

Regards,
PAPicker
 
Diminish the quality?

Using DirectX effects destructively certainly changes the data, but diminishes the quality? I thought one used effects to improve the quality of the sound -- give it ambience, interesting overtones, deepen or sharpen it, stereo motion, etc.
 
Re: Diminish the quality?

AlChuck said:
Using DirectX effects destructively certainly changes the data, but diminishes the quality? I thought one used effects to improve the quality of the sound -- give it ambience, interesting overtones, deepen or sharpen it, stereo motion, etc.
Click to expand...

Yes, but I don't mean the quality that your ears perceive. Your ears may love the results, but I'm talking mathematics here . . . truncated word values . . . the algorithms used in effects add ons especially, distortion type effects like amp sims, reduce tonal quality.
For that matter, I can do a destructive 3dB volume reduction that will dimimish quality simply because the wave's values must be recalculated, truncated, etc. . . .

Regards,
PAPicker
 
Thank you, your comments have been most helpful.

A point of clarification, if I may. In Cakewalk 9.0 I can add the same exact effects to a track while either in Track View, Audio View, or Console View (maybe others also, but these are the views I typically use). I thought I read somewhere (maybe the manual, yikes!) that if you added the effects in ANYTHING BUT Console View they were added destructively. That it was only in Console View that you are able to add "realtime" effects (which I think are the same as nondestructive).

The pros and cons of these methods are as you all mentioned - destructive uses less processor resources but alters the wave file, nondestrucive is easy to remove and change, but uses heavy processor resources. Pick your poison.

So now I'm left with just one question - how do I know whether I'm using destructive or nondestructive effects? Is it as I described in paragraph 2 (i.e., depends on which view you are in when you add the effect)?

Again, your comments are appreciated.
 
dachay2tnr,

If the effect gets patched in non-destructively, since no change is actually made to the waveform, you shouldn't see anything in the status bar. When you apply an effect destructively, it will take some seconds to process the track and make the change, and you'll see the progress bar growing from left to right across the status bar as this happens.

PAPicker,

I guess it's a matter of semantics. I suppose any gain changing will certainly diminish the quality of the original -- turn it down and you lose resolution, turn it up and you also increase the noise. But most effects are calculated with 32-bit precision and I would think that rounding and truncation in general would have a pretty negligible effect on the effected data.

-AlChuck
 
dachay2tnr> You can add realtime ( non-destructive ) effects in the Track View or the Console View, but only destructive effects in the Audio View. AlChuck answered your last question . . . I might include that destructive effects are added by using the top tool-bar drop downs and non-destructive effects are added by right clicking either in the "Effects" column in Track View or the Effects box in the Console View.

AlChuck>You may be right, but it seems I get better results working with non-destructive effects. It's probably got more to do with the fact that I'm working in 24bit now instead of 16bit.

Regards,
PAPicker
 
Thanks to all for your help. I think I got it now. You guys are among the reasons that this forum works. I hope I can contribute in the future.
 
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