"Desperado" cover.....

  • Thread starter Thread starter RAMI
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Lol. The Eagles. They're so gross. I'm not personally too crazy about this AC song, but damn, it's got to be better than anything The Eagles did. :laughings:

Anyway Rami, I'm still getting a little wander from the snare, but it's definitely not as bad. Maybe it's just not as noticeable because you brought the level down. I am curious as to what's causing it, but honestly it's really so barely there that I bet if it never got mentioned most people probably would never pick up on it. Not that I have special ears or anything, it's just most people would never notice something like that. The snare's tone is better to me, more like your other stuff, but it still has something kind of empty about it. I'm thinking you have some phase things happening. Something somewhere is just out of whack a little bit. The sun the moon the stars your mics and your room have conspired against you on this one tune! Just give everything one more double check. Make sure your mics are exactly where they're supposed to be, and maybe try a run through with no aligning the tracks. Go back to your old phase-flip method and see how it goes. I know how it is dude, like you said, sometimes you get that one drum session that just messes with you. Score one point for mindless drum programs and samples. Just one though.
Real drums - 100,000,000,000
Programmed samples - 1
 
Greg_L said:
Anyway Rami, I'm still getting a little wander from the snare, but it's definitely not as bad. Maybe it's just not as noticeable because you brought the level down. I am curious as to what's causing it, but honestly it's really so barely there that I bet if it never got mentioned most people probably would never pick up on it. Not that I have special ears or anything, it's just most people would never notice something like that. The snare's tone is better to me, more like your other stuff, but it still has something kind of empty about it. I'm thinking you have some phase things happening. Something somewhere is just out of whack a little bit. The sun the moon the stars your mics and your room have conspired against you on this one tune! Just give everything one more double check. Make sure your mics are exactly where they're supposed to be, and maybe try a run through with no aligning the tracks. Go back to your old phase-flip method and see how it goes. I know how it is dude, like you said, sometimes you get that one drum session that just messes with you. Score one point for mindless drum programs and samples. Just one though.
Real drums - 100,000,000,000
Programmed samples - 1
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Ok thanx man. It just drives me nuts that something like this would happen. I'll definitely look at everything. Maybe I'll just post a couple of seconds of drums with the snare aligned, and then a couple of seconds with the snare not aligned but flipped. It has to be one or the other, because not aligned and not flipped sounds really bad. So, maybe that should tell me something right there.

Maybe it's time to try something other than Recorderman/Glyn Jons on the overheads. Maybe I'll try XY or spaced pair just to see. I want to cover all bases.

Yeah, don't worry about the actual sound of the snare. I know I can get a better tone out of it. It was a quick tune-down, I was more worried about the wandering thing, which still baffles me.

One thing for sure: The Great Bottom Snare Mic Experiment is over. I got great drum tracks for years without a bottom snare mic, and using one only caused me more head aches. I think I just wanted to use that mic since I had it.

I'll get this right by the end of the weekend. It's my weekend project to get this snare thing figured out.
 
RAMI said:
Ok thanx man. It just drives me nuts that something like this would happen. I'll definitely look at everything. Maybe I'll just post a couple of seconds of drums with the snare aligned, and then a couple of seconds with the snare not aligned but flipped. It has to be one or the other, because not aligned and not flipped sounds really bad. So, maybe that should tell me something right there.

Maybe it's time to try something other than Recorderman/Glyn Jons on the overheads. Maybe I'll try XY or spaced pair just to see. I want to cover all bases.

Yeah, don't worry about the actual sound of the snare. I know I can get a better tone out of it. It was a quick tune-down, I was more worried about the wandering thing, which still baffles me.

One thing for sure: The Great Bottom Snare Mic Experiment is over. I got great drum tracks for years without a bottom snare mic, and using one only caused me more head aches. I think I just wanted to use that mic since I had it.

I'll get this right by the end of the weekend. It's my weekend project to get this snare thing figured out.
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That's funny dude, I just used a bottom snare mic track for the first time in, like, forever, on my new song and I think it actually came out pretty decent. I record the bottom of the snare a lot, but I pretty much never use it. Ever. Never ever. But this time I did, and it came out okay I think. It's just barely blended in though. I'm usually not a fan of that bottom track.

I wouldn't go revamping everything. I mean, yeah experiment if you want, no harm there, and try to diagnose what's going on here, but the overwhelming majority of your drum tracks are good and consistent. This is probably just some freaky fluke, something got nudged somewhere, who knows. I know you'll figure it out.
 
Greg_L said:
That's funny dude, I just used a bottom snare mic track for the first time in, like, forever, on my new song and I think it actually came out pretty decent. I record the bottom of the snare a lot, but I pretty much never use it. Ever. Never ever. But this time I did, and it came out okay I think. It's just barely blended in though. I'm usually not a fan of that bottom track.
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Hehe...Funny. It just wasn't worth the hassle and wondering if it's really adding anything worth keeping. I actually just used it as a "wires enhancer". I high-passed it at like 5k or something and blended it in just so that I didn't have to boost my top mic to get the wires. This allowed me to not worry about boosting the hi-hats in the top snare mic because I was able to keep those frequencies flat on the top mic. But, it didn't add that much benefit to me. Especially now with this new headache. Maybe I'll go back to it once I figure this "wandering snare" crap out.

I wouldn't go revamping everything. I mean, yeah experiment if you want, no harm there, and try to diagnose what's going on here, but the overwhelming majority of your drum tracks are good and consistent. This is probably just some freaky fluke, something got nudged somewhere, who knows. I know you'll figure it out.
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Yeah, you're right. But that's just how I am. I get frustrated at something like this and just want to start fresh again. I'm probably going to take every drum off it's stand, re-tune everything, and treat the whole situation as if I'm doing it for the first time and experiment as if it's the first time. Maybe I'll discover something good.

First, though, I'm going to post a few seconds of the drum track to this tune without the snare, then with the snare aligned, and then with the snare phase flipped and see where the problem's coming from. Can't do any of that now because I'm at work, which is also the reason I'm only typing and not listening to anything. I have no speakers here.
 
RAMI said:
I can guarantee you that's not the case. I'm sure some people prefer the sappy Eagles, but certainly not everyone. :)
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If I put a :) next to every sentence I wrote that was sarcasm or a joke, my posts would be more :)s than drivel! And I just don't have that kind of time. :)

Upon seeing the thread name, though, the mental image I got was of the guy from the Seinfeld episode who goes into a trance whenever he hears Desperado. I thought we were going to be treated to an over-the-top crooning dripping with pathos. Maybe next time you break out the keyboards?

RAMI said:
It's a 14"x6.5", just a little thicker than a standard snare. But it's also fibreglass, so I guess it doesn't sound quite like a wood, or quite like a chrome. Not sure what tone you're referring to, though. I'm not particularly crazy about the sound of the snare in this tune. Like I said, I just tuned it quickly and will probably re-track it this weekend after spending some time tuning it.

Thanx a lot for the listen and comments. :cool:
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What I liked about your snare is the very short "report" or whatever it's called (very little sustain), and relatively low pitch. Not something I like to hear all the time, but every now and then I like it. The latest Pennywise album has a snare sound like that. I go back and forth between loving the snare sound on the album and wishing it had more punch.
 
NotThatBright said:
If I put a :) next to every sentence I wrote that was sarcasm or a joke, my posts would be more :)s than drivel! And I just don't have that kind of time. :)

Upon seeing the thread name, though, the mental image I got was of the guy from the Seinfeld episode who goes into a trance whenever he hears Desperado. I thought we were going to be treated to an over-the-top crooning dripping with pathos. Maybe next time you break out the keyboards?
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Love that Episode. I'm a Seinfeld fanatic, too, so you're on my good side now forever (I even take Seinfeld quizzes online...I need help). :eek:



What I liked about your snare is the very short "report" or whatever it's called (very little sustain), and relatively low pitch. Not something I like to hear all the time, but every now and then I like it. The latest Pennywise album has a snare sound like that. I go back and forth between loving the snare sound on the album and wishing it had more punch.
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Funny, I usually have a higher-picthed "snappy" sound on my snare, like I did in the first version I posted of this tune. It works for a lot of stuff, but sucks for other stuff. I quickly tuned it down for the version you heard. Maybe I'll go for that lower tone more often. I think it's more neutral and goes well with more songs than the higher crack snare I often use.
 
I just thought of something while I'm here at work.

(and I'm just thinking out loud, so nobody needs to respond....just nod your head and pretend you're listening.....)

I was training a client, and while she was doing her squats, it occurred to me that I have a pretty flimsy snare stand, compared to the rest of my hardware. Just never thought to up-grade it. It's flimsy enough that it actually moves/rocks around a bit when I play. I used to have to stabilize it with my hi-hat leg, which I'm not even sure I do any more. I wonder if that couple of inches of movement while I'm playing is what's causing it to wander in the overheads enough to make it noticeable.

Will have to check that out when I get home. OK, carry on.
 
RAMI said:
I was training a client, and while she was doing her squats, it occurred to me that I have a pretty flimsy snare stand
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That's not where my attention would be while my client does squats! Perhaps it's indicative of her current size?
 
jonny deep said:
That's not where my attention would be while my client does squats! Perhaps it's indicative of her current size?
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Hehe.....actually, she's pretty hot and I just started training her. I had to get my mind off the squats, I guess. :D
 
Just an update.....just making this my own personal log......

I'm beginning to think this might be a mic mis-match issue. I have a pair of AKG C1000s as overheads. I just solo'd my overheads for this tune and saw that the left mic is registering 4-6db louder than the right mic, even though the mics are almost perfectly lined up, and so are the peaks in the files. So, there's something funky going on.

I'm assuming a volume difference can cause the same phase issues as having the mics different distances? I don't know, but it can't be a good thing. So, now to see why there's a difference in volume between the 2 mics. Or it's what I said before about my snare stand not being completely steady.




Why can't anything just be easy.


Fuck.
 
Interesting. Just speculating, but I'd be very surprised if a wobbly snare stand caused the snare wander. Anything is possible though and stranger things have happened. I'd be more suspicious of the weird level discrepancy between the two overheads. That really is odd. That could be something as dumb as a bad cable. I've had that happen. One of my overheads would be tracking fine, then I'd finish the song and see one overhead cut down to like half signal halfway through the song. It was a cable.
 
I returned, I tried the old link & the new. Neither work for me - is this a sign?
 
RAMI said:
Love that Episode. I'm a Seinfeld fanatic, too, so you're on my good side now forever (I even take Seinfeld quizzes online...I need help). :eek:

I don't consider myself a "fan" of Seinfeld, though I like it and have probably seen every episode while eating dinner over the past 10 years and thought most are at least somewhat funny. Some are great. The best part of the show is obviously George Costanza. Co...stanza!

RAMI said:
Funny, I usually have a higher-picthed "snappy" sound on my snare, like I did in the first version I posted of this tune. It works for a lot of stuff, but sucks for other stuff. I quickly tuned it down for the version you heard. Maybe I'll go for that lower tone more often. I think it's more neutral and goes well with more songs than the higher crack snare I often use.
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Sometimes I forget the long and strange trip of trial and error I've taken as I've screwed with my drums. For a time last year I taped tissue over the snare wire onto the reso head to eliminate as much sustain as possible. Eventually I realized that I probably cut the loudness of the drum in half, and the lack of sustain emphasized just how shitty my timing was. I learned to live with the high crack snare that takes a second to die out, though I like yours better.

RAMI said:
Hehe.....actually, she's pretty hot and I just started training her. I had to get my mind off the squats, I guess.
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That's right. Feel the burn!
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Greg_L said:
Interesting. Just speculating, but I'd be very surprised if a wobbly snare stand caused the snare wander. Anything is possible though and stranger things have happened. I'd be more suspicious of the weird level discrepancy between the two overheads. That really is odd. That could be something as dumb as a bad cable. I've had that happen. One of my overheads would be tracking fine, then I'd finish the song and see one overhead cut down to like half signal halfway through the song. It was a cable.
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Yeah. I was at work when I posted about the stand. It's not the stand. When I got home, I realized the stand's not THAT wobbly. I was just reaching for reasons at the time. More chance it's a cable and/or mic issue, considering the volume difference. Anyway, haven't had time to record, but pretty much tore my set-up apart yesterday and started re-setting it up. I'm going with a spaced pair, like I used to years ago. One of the reasons is that I was able to get the overheads a foot higher than I was able to with Recorderman/Glyn because my cloud isn't limiting the height of the mics this way. I'll do some recording later today and see what happens. I also moved my drums further out from the wall and oriented them a little differently. Besides that, I switched the mics to see if the same thing happens on the opposite sides. If it does, then I know it's a cable. We'll see what happens.
rayc said:
I returned, I tried the old link & the new. Neither work for me - is this a sign?
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"This song is not available in your country due to copyright laws". :laughings:

dobro said:
Four pages of comments based on no song at all. Brilliant. :laughings:
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That's the genius of it. :D
NotThatBright said:
View attachment 89350

you... Can't... Say... Fuck!!!
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Flargen....flargen....flargen......:)
 
RAMI said:
Yeah. I was at work when I posted about the stand. It's not the stand. When I got home, I realized the stand's not THAT wobbly. I was just reaching for reasons at the time. More chance it's a cable and/or mic issue, considering the volume difference. Anyway, haven't had time to record, but pretty much tore my set-up apart yesterday and started re-setting it up. I'm going with a spaced pair, like I used to years ago. One of the reasons is that I was able to get the overheads a foot higher than I was able to with Recorderman/Glyn because my cloud isn't limiting the height of the mics this way. I'll do some recording later today and see what happens. I also moved my drums further out from the wall and oriented them a little differently. Besides that, I switched the mics to see if the same thing happens on the opposite sides. If it does, then I know it's a cable. We'll see what happens.
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Cool. When I used the Recorderman setup, it was good, but it was extremely sensitive to how my drums where oriented in my room. I had to put little tape marks on the floor to keep them set up in the same spot between gigs. My overhead sound would either be tight and clear, or I'd have weird comb filtering going on with the cymbals. I moved things around and switch to spaced pair and it's been pretty good this way. Not great but I'm probably right near the limit of what this room can do. My general overhead sound and presence is never as good as yours though. I can't get away with using only 4 mics.
 
I remember when I first switched to Recorderman back in the day. The thing that got me the most excited was how much louder my snare was in the overheads, to the point that I sometimes thought I didn't even need a snare mic. But that turned into a nuisance at times, as much as it was an advantage. It was always a case of "How much snare mic do I need here", so it would end up either being too loud if it was 1db too much, or not enough.

I think I just need a fresh approach that's going to make me really listen. I've been so occupied with new mics, monitors, new guitar, amp, reamping, etc.......that I got a little complacent with my drum recording lately.

These little problems I'm having now are actually a good thing. They made me re-think, re-tune, and re-arrange.
 
OK, let's see what happens here.

New drum recording on this. My main concern is the wandering snare syndrome. I think it's solved, I hope so anyway. If the drums also sound good, that's a bonus. But my main concern is that snare issue. If it sounds good, I'll tell you what I did in detail, I changed quite a few things and tried some other things for the first time.

DESPERADO (Alice Cooper cover) take #387
 
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