Designing a home studio

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jwetzel

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I am looking to design an adequate but improvable home studio to record my own acoustic music and mix it etc. Ineed help understanding where to begin. So far I have been told that going with a mac and pro tools/digi001 are good pieces of equipment, unfortunately I don't **** about technology. Can anyone help me find a good starting point? (price range is about $2000 starters)
 
I'm not really familiar with prices, but I think a mac with Digi 001 will cost you a bit more.

There are lots of valuable alternatives for the Digi 001, like motu, nuendo,.. it all depends a little bit on what you really want, also concerning if you want any extra outboard material, mixers or microphones.

You'll also find many threads on this board concerning the mac-PC debate. Mac is idd popular in the music scene and is rated as stable and fast, but PC has also lots of advantages, like easier upgrades and especially: it costs less money. In my opinion, with your budget you better thnik towards a well equipped PC, especially if you want some extra money for mices or a mixer.
 
I ran a G4 with Digi001 for a year. I sold it and went with a PIII and a MOTU 2408mkII (to get my ADATs, and now an HD24)in and out of the computer and have NEVER looked back. Cheaper and just as stable as any Mac. YMMV.
 
My Digi 001 runs just fine on my PC. And it's a 550 MHz PIII running Win98SE. Now, I haven't pushed it yet, but if you search on DUC (the digidesign User's Conference BBS on Digi's website) under the 001 forum, you'll see there's some perfomance test people have done with an unrealistic amount of plugins running ... supposedly very sadistic for the computer. And the numbers of what you can record and playback look pretty good. Just search under "perfomance test" when you get there ... maybe that will lead you to the right place.

I agree with BrettB that a PC is cheaper. I have friends running PT on Mac and it seems the G4s are, as one BBSer once put it, "Apple's red-headed stepchildren." The feeling was they were kinda pushed out the door even though somewhat unstable.

I think if you're going to do ANY recording on a computer, you're going to have to become computer-literate. Macs aren't necessarily easier in this regard (I'm mostly a PC person, but I find PC file management and how to tweak the system much easier to understand). In hiding system stuff from the casual user, I think Mac makes it harder on those of us who HAVE to tweak a machine for our purposes. If you don't like the idea of wrestling with a computer, maybe consider looking into hard-disk recording. With a $2000 budget, your trade-offs will most likely be sound quality and upgrade flexibility.

But you can get decent hardware and software a number of ways. The reason I chose Pro Tools was because I:

1. Worked with the software (LE and TDM as well as Free) and knew it already
2. Am tracking some sessions at a professional engineer's TDM Pro Tools studio and wanted session compatibility to record stuff at home and edit/comp tracks I recorded there
3. Got the Digi used for a great deal -- they're certainly out there.

I've heard mixed results about the Motu converters/sound quality. Anyone? Is this related to specific products only?

Digi 001's are decent but not the best. Some people say the Delta 1010 (but not the 1010LT or Delta 44/66, which have converters on the cards or use codecs) has the best "prosumer" sound, then you get into more expensive stuff.

I researched and ran a bunch of scenarios -- pairing cards with software and then adding any cost for plugins I'd have to buy (or even have available) as well as computer upgrades for a functional system -- and decided I'd be spending the same for a Delta 66/Omni + software with effects bundle (like Sonar 2.0, and one of the programs I was looking at --- was it Sonar? -- only lets you record 2 tracks at a time with the 66) + additional needed effects as I would for a Digi 001 Factory (and it's looking like I don't need additional effects with that).

Sorry if this is long-winded, but I'm hoping it's helpful to know the process I went through to decide. I think it's very individual; be clear about your needs are now (you'll be able to get better quality, cheaper, in the future, when you NEED to buy more features for expanded needs), and "now" may be like the next 2 years. Then I'd bias my decisions to "tried and true" manufacturers for the sake of upgrade path ... Digi, Motu, Cakewalk/Sonar, Cubase, Logic, and some I'm probably forgetting do fit this bill (I think CEP has a ways to go, heard mixed reviews about stability and feature set). Decide how many inputs, outputs, other routing options you'll need for the hardware. Decide how important one kind of software is over another, if applicable (like if you're collaborating with someone using a certain type of software).

Anyway, hope this helps.
 
Thanks for the tips

I appreciate all of your inputs.
May I inquire further?
Where can I go to aquire more knowledge? I have to admit that I am lost in differentiating these programs (Logic, Cubase, Pro Tools, Sound Forge, Acid) by what they achieve. I don't even understand what a sequencer is. I am not looking to "program" electronic music in at all, but record and mix through mics into the computer. do I need separate software to record and to mix and edit?
I know that $2000 is not a lot of money and I would be much happier buying separate pieces of equipment at a time in order to ensure better long term quality.
The only reason I considered the digi 001 is because I heard it was compatible (in what way?) with Pro Tools which I know to be a reputable program. What consequences come from the øther mixers (software/computer compatibility, etc.)?
Thanx again.
 
Advice

All of the software that you just mentioned (i.e Logic Audio, Pro Tools, Cubase Acid et cetra) all of these programs have frighteningly similar functionality.
They are all known as Sequencers of MIDI and Audio. Sequencing means that you play, for instance a guitar onto track one. Then you back up to the beginning, and record a bass guitar onto track 2. Then back up and record the drums onto track(s) 3 (4,5,6,...) then back up and lay down the vocals on the next trrack. Then if you want you can also play MIDI keyboards or drum machines blah blah blah all into the computer... and the software allows you to shift the audio and midi around. Like if your guitarist came in to early on one measure you can shift it back a 1/4 of a beat without having to do the take all over again. That is just ONE of many hundereds of thousands of things you can do with audio/MIDI sequencer programs.
You can flip the vocal track around and play it backwards... and listen to it sound all weird, then if you don't like it... just flip it back. That is the beauty of these programs. You can try something odd as hell, and if you screw it up, or just don't like it, than you can just put it back the way it was.
Now another word you will hear VERY often when talking about these programs is... PLUG-INS, some times refered to as EFFECTS PLUG-INS. All that means is... let's say you buy Logic Audio Platinum. Now after you record your guitar part, you might think, Man this guitar part sounds dry and weak... it could sure use some reverb... Well you just go to your effects plug ins, pull up your "Platinum Verb" reverb plug in... and there you have it... rich beautiful reverb. You can think of them as effects pedals or rack units that exist inside the computer.
Now as far as choosing between one of these softwares... it is rediculasly difficult to decide which one is "made for you". Logic Audio is a complete BITCh to set up... but once you set it up, it is an incredibly professionally powerful (possibly the best) software there is. Sonar is half as difficult to set up, but a lot of people "outgrow it" quickly and realize it's flimsy limitations. ProTools is "industry standard" so to speak, but remember ProTools' power is in their HARDWARE (i.e sound cards, audio interfaces, and mixer7control desks). If you are recording a full band then the Digidesign 001 might be a bit too few inputs for a HUGE PRICE. You might like the Digidesign 001 because it is an "all-in-one" solution. You get the software, the sound card, the audio interface... all in one box. All you need after that is a descent PC or Mac and about 3 months with the instruction manuel.
I deffinitly recommend a PC. Apple Mac's are very over priced. It might have to do with the fact that there are like 50 PCs out there for every 1 Mac so the manufacture is more expensive... I don't know. But The whole reason that people keep recomending Mac over PC is simply because 10 years ago, when all this computer based recording began to hit big, PCs were unstable as hell and crashed all the time. Intel wasn't churning out these high quality Processors, and Windows was for home and office use only. So the more stable Mac was the weapon of choice. And so people began to work on Macs and Macs only. But the thing is, that now PCs are just as stable and maybe even more stable than Macs BUT they can cost half as much.
$2,000 is admitadly quite a small budget. If it were $3,000 then you could get set the hell up with some cool stuff. Ever thought about loans, financing, leasing? Anyway... there are companies that make PCs specifically designed for Audio.
I am going to give you a few links to click on and check out these systems.

This one is an "All in one" system. It has all you need to do some good song writting... but if you are recording a full drum kit, you might find it lacking in inputs.... but the sound quality is spectacular:#
http://www.carillonusa.com/clnwebsystems/clnwebsystem05.html

Here is the "next step up" so to speak in that you can do some serious band recording with this kind of input count and software:
http://www.carillonusa.com/clnwebsystems/clnwebsystem08.html

Now both of the above systems sort of assume that you will be doing more than just audio. They have midi interfaces included for all your keyboards that you may, or may NOT have. If you are interested in getting JUST a PC and you can worry about the software and sound card yourself... then go here:
http://www.carillonusa.com/clnwebsystemsbarebones.html

This company is great because they will sell you the PC, a pro sound card, and whatever software you want.. and they will install it all for you... (ever installed a PCI Slot sound card before and then configured it??? Can anyone say PAIN IN THE ASS!!) Plus they will instal the software and call you on the phone and you have a phone meeting about what you are trying to do and they will configure your software to do exactly what you need it to do... and you can take the PC out of the box when it comes... Plug it in... fire it up... Plug in your guitar...and you have just entered into the reml of BAD ASS RECORDING GEAR, in a matter of minutes.

Anyway... hope this helps.

If you have any other questions then feel free to e-mail me at m-perkins@ti.com

Hope I answered at least some questions
 
Damn guys, and I thought I was long winded. Great stuff though. Jwetel, you mention acoustic style music so it sounds like you are not talking about a whole lot of tracks or at least needing a whole lot inputs to get your creations out there. You may want to look at some of the smaller 4 or 6 input soundcards that are out there that would allow you to hook up say, a mic or two for your guitar, one for your vocal and one for your bass playing buddy (or harmony vocal, drum machine, etc.) Then, as was mentioned in one of the other posts, you can come back and rerecord additonal parts by routing the inputs to other tracks that your software provides. Your PC doesn't have to be the biggest baddest thing on the face of the earth here. A lot of these guys are recording onto 200/300/400Mhz machines and doing quite well. Since you are just staring out, you probably should opt for something with a little more muscle but some guys have put together a very nice recording PC that they put together themselves for less than $1000! (Diclaimer: There are some components such as a monitor or an extra hard drive that they already had so it didn't go into that cost.)
As far as finding out info about this type of thing, keep reading here on this forum or others like it. You can search this forum for a term such as "Acoustic" and it will pull up all the threads that mention acoustic music. (It may also pull up other thead related to acoustics of a room but even that needs to be considered when you are talking about recording acoustic music.) That may give you an indication of what others are doing. There's a lot of good info and a lot of helpful people here.
Key things to think about when you are putting this all toghether: 1. Create a good room to record in. A bad sounding room will make your recordings sound bad to begin with and there will be very little you can do about that later. Even close micing won't help a bad sounding room that you have to sing in because the sound of the room will end up on the track and it can't be gotten rid of. You don't have to go to great extemes or great expense but just try to get rid of some of the bad ringing that is present in most square shaped rooms.
2. Be sure to include a good set of monitor speakers in your budgeting. Headphones will work at least for awhile and even well for some things but nothing will beat being able to hear your music through speakers and being able to estimate how it will really sound on other's systems. You don't have to spend all $2000 on them but I don't know that I would go for anything under say, $400. (This price is widely open to discussion.) PC speakers, in most cases, will not work well.
3. Think upgrading and expansion. If you do get a PC make sure you can upgrade the hardware or add additional sound cards to increase the number of inputs you can have from 4 to 8 (or 6 to 12, or 8 to 16, etc.)
4. Keep learning. I am an old analog audio guy who has been around recording since the late 70's. For a long time I could not see the need to move to digital audio but those times are gone. I'm back on the backside of the curve of it now and wish I had taken the plunge sooner.

Hope this all helps, and I too am sorry to be so long winded. These are not simple questions you ask that can be answered succinctly. There's too many ways of doing the same thing and too much equipment to choose from also. Good Luck!
 
Thanks!

You guys are a godsend. Don't apologize for being long winded, its ten times better than being uninterested. I've decided that I will look into getting a good PC, monitor speakers, and sound card first and just wait to be able to afford the software I need later. What other component is there (besides mics, cables, Headphones)?

P.S. by acoustic music I am refering to percussion chamber music which will require lots of mics. So the more inputs in the sound card the better.
 
JWetzel -

Not to change the subject, but I have to ask this based on your name and location...


Did you go to Reseda High School by chance?
 
hi! im also doing multitrack recordings at home, i recommend you try Sonic Foundry Vegas, it is a multi track recording program that lets you record audio then edit it like loops, apply efx, EQ's, crossfades, use plug ins, lots of auxillary buses, lets u copy/paste tracks, so u need not record same parts.. just paste them. uf you still have extra cash.. i suggest u buy a mixer, of at least 8 tracks.. so youll have plenty of inputs like mics and instruments. i use Cakewalk Sonar to create Drum sequences.. then record it to audio, so i can use it with Vegas.. makes recording much easier and faster. =)
 
jwetzel

As far as waiting til you can afford software, I don't think you even need to do that. Some/Most of the sound cards you buy will even come with multitrack software as part of the package. Also, most of the software that is mentioned here on this BBS is available as free trials. Some may have limited accessibility to certain functions and others may be limited by time or number of uses but this would allow you to try different packages that you think you may be interested in. Also, one of the more favored programs, N-Track sells for $70 I think and this BBS even has a separate forum for users of it. So don't think you will have to get all this cool new stuff and then sit on it until you can afford software.
As far as wanting a lot of mic inputs I can see where that might be useful. But being a drummer myself and having participated in many percussion ensembles (are they now calling them perucssion chamber music now or is this something different? I've been away from percussion academia now for some time.), I would think that starting out with a good pair of mics would be fine. Then as more cash becomes available add more mics. This will also teach all the performers to think of their parts as they relate to the whole piece and make them be aware of their individual volumes as well as play together as a group. It's kind of like the singers that I deal with at church. They all want their own microphone to sing into when we record and I keep trying to tell them "Look, work on your group sound first, get it kicking, then we can talk about whether you guys really need individual mics!"
Just some thoughts...
 
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