Demo tapes...

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Bobbert

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Howdy everyone, havent been on in a while, thought I'd drop by with a bit of a query I've had for a bit...

I've got myself a 4-track, and a ton of songs sone (more or less, still need some fine tuning), so I'm ready to put them down.

Thing is, I have the music and the lyrics, but my voice sounds like a lawnmower. Well, a Welsh lawnmower at least...

I can do some sort of parody singing where I have to act as a cowboy or a frenchman, but not serious SINGING at all..

I really want these songs down, I can do all the music myself, I have all the equipment, just a voice, so what do you guys think I should do for a demo tape? I want it to be professional, not just a tape to send to some big fat cigar eating 'I-own-half-the-world' record company boss, but something that can make me feel that I have achieved something, that is complete...

Any suggestions?
 
one more thing..

The songs are sort of heavily influenced by Muse, Jeff Buckley, the Eels, The Cooper Temple Clause....alternative rock/blues stuff, not run-of-the-mill 'Feelin' Alright!' Sort of rock *shudder*

Thanks, Bobbert
 
DUde, Have no fear ......many of our voices sound like lawn mowers :) .....I quite frankly I don' hear too many great singers on the radio today as far as new music is concerned........My voice ain't so great either.....And I've been dealing with the lack of confidence problem as far as my voice goes as well......I have no problem singing out at a bar or club but when it comes to recording I always shuddered at the sound of hearing my own voice on tape.........But the main problem wasn't really my voice at all when it came to recording......It had more to do with the my lack of confidence in my singing......and when I realized that...and started to sing with confidence in my ability it made all the world of a difference..........I started to experiment with recording my voice and eventually I started to make it work in a listenable way...It took practice and confidence....and that is all that anything in this world takes......You combine practice and confidence and you'll succeed at it........

BTW, I like the eels alot....and look at mr E. from the eels bro , he can't really sing either..........the thing is ...is that he has confidence and works with what he has.....look at a guy like Tom Waits....he sounds like an entire symphony of lawn mowers :).......not too mention bob dylan......the list goes on and on.......Have some confidence in yourself and you'll be able to pull it off.......

So that's just something to think about..........Other than that..you could always find a singer.......

-nave :)
 
Thanks nave, I'll try that...

THats the sort of thing I'm after though, the first E record (A Man Called E), is sort of my ultra-inspirational thing...everyone around here wants to be in the fashionable sort of *a guitarist,a DJ, a bassist, a drummer, and a 'cute' lead singer*.

Thats what I'm trying to stop man!

Um, and soforth, Thanks for the advice though, Nave, my quest for confidence has started...
 
Thanks nave, I'll try that...

THats the sort of thing I'm after though, the first E record (A Man Called E), is sort of my ultra-inspirational thing...everyone around here wants to be in the fashionable sort of *a guitarist,a DJ, a bassist, a drummer, and a 'cute' lead singer*.

Thats what I'm trying to stop man!

Um, and soforth, Thanks for the advice though, Nave, my quest for confidence has started...


Ya, those eels records are pretty inspiring..............I like how that guy kinda just throws all his the shit on the table and wears his heart on his sleave.......He's not hiding anything man..........His albums are like the diaries and scrap books of his entire personal life ......he's very candid lyrically and creative musically and I respect that...........It's actually funny that you brought up the whole eels thing......I had never listened to them that much up until about two years ago........Actually I never really heard of them at all except for "novacain for the soul" But after I heard all their records MR E.. was actually the guy who inspired me to just freakin sing and forget about how I sounded........My voice is actually kinda similar to his sometimes......And I heard him sing and I said to myself "shit, I can sing as good as this guy, and he's making it work." So, that's my story with Mr E.....Tip your hat to the guy........

And if your not trying to be some fashionable "TRL" phenom, than I wouldn't worry too much about your voice......And even if you were half the people on TRL and the radio can't sing either............But, Everyone can sing to some extent.........Work hard with what you got and don't expect miracles and I guarantee that you'll exceed any expectations you had previous to making this post.....

good luck man

-nave
 
BTW, Jimi Hendrix always thought he was never good enough to sing before he created the band "experience".......He played rythmn guitar in all these jazz and blues bands but never thought of himself as a front man.........


Then one day, he heard Bob Dylan on the radio...I think "mr tamborine man"........And that was all it took......He realized from that moment on that he was good enough to sing in a band.....Was he the greatest singer ever? ...Hardly the case.....However, He was good enough at singing and his vocals didn't stop his music from becoming some of the most inspirational music ever made........

another BTW, if your making demo tapes that fall more into a singer/songwriter genre... you have to be confident in your voice.....the most important part of the demo tape is your voice...so don't be afraid to sing loudly and put your voice dead center in the mix.......Truth is from what I read, that most record companies that you send demo's to aren't looking to see how skilled of a musician you are and nor are they looking to see that your a great singer.......What they want is something intangible that they feel they can work with.....and if your voice is not on the spot and not loud enough or confident enough etc..... theyre not even going to bother to listen to it......So just learn how to sing in key and sing loud and proud!


-nave
 
1. Either find a vocalist to do the songs for you (probably the easiest route)

or

2. Get a publisher who believes in your songwriting abilities to pitch them to major artists

or

3. Do it yourself


I would try all 3 ways since the window of opportunity is small in the music business you need to try all avenues...
 
what nave said about throwing your voice out there, it works......ehrn i'm writning with the fourtrack i sing really quietly, and it sounds like shit, relax, don't try too hard, don't think about it too much and be loudi don't just mean turn it up, i mean you have to actually sing loudthe louder and more confidently you throw your voice the better it sounds, don't worry everyone is scared of their own voice
 
Vocals are what sell songwriter demos, period!!! If you are looking to shop demos to a publisher you need a decent vocal. You should be able to find singers who wil sing demos for $50-$100 per song. You may even find a decent singer willing to sing for free, if the singer can get a demo of their voice.
 
The experience I've had with publishing houses is that they are interested in the song. Lyrics, and the melody.
Beyond that, they have people on staff who can make adjustments to lyrics and melody.

The people who listen to the demos have a vast resevoir of talent to choose from. They want the song. Not who does the singing, not if the singer is really that good. If they like the song, they'll find the singer to sing it.
These people know what they want and that's what they listen to. Sure, a nice CD or Cassette cover will catch the eye of 'the man', and a nice vioce will call an ear to lend, but the bottom line, is the song it's self.
So many singers with terrible voices have been matched with songs that use that voice.
Janis Joplin come to mind.
Leon Redbone, among others.

If your song, standing on the merits of lyrics and melody, catches a publishers or artists ear, then that's all it takes.
People in the business look and listen beyond the glitter and perfect pitch of the demo for the lyrics. Does the lyrics complete the song from start to finish? Does the hook need moved or altered? Things like that. There in the business of publishing and selling your song, not the demo's voice. They will know a good song when they hear it, even if your elderly grandmother sings it.

Like I said, it's my experience and what I've been told by the people in the business. Keep the demo simple. Don't worry about perfection and arrangement.

There are a lot of views on a song, from starting on a napkin to air play. Everyone who hears the song between start to finish listens to the song in a different way.

The musicians listen for timing, beat, smooth licks, etc.
The singer listens to the quality of the voice, the meter, etc.
The recording engineer listens to the mix, the blend of sounds, etc.
The man/woman who is paid to listen to demos and suggest to a higher up in the business to listen to it, hears what the song says. How it's structured.
Aim your demos for those people.
 
"They will know a good song when they hear it, even if your elderly grandmother sings it."
I disagree. Most A & R people were working in the mailroom last month.
If you're pitching in Nashville, you'd better have a RADIO-READY demo, and you'd better have a great singer on that demo. Garth Brooks and Trisha Yearwood were both demo singers before they broke in, and they both talk about the importance of the vocal track on a Country demo. I can do a half-assed demo at home, or I can pay to have it done properly with good players, engineer, etc. I choose the latter.

Bob
 
Bob I think (and Im just speculating) that nashville may be the exception to that rule.........Most A & R folks that I have read about and occasionally spoken with are infact looking for a song and that the quality of the demo is not an issue of top priority in the genre of rock singer/songwriters........If they here that intangible thing about a song that makes people like songs than they will worry about the polished finish and the final brush strokes later on when they produce it with the big money....So, I'd have to agree with badgas on that one............However, nashville is like another planet as far as I'm concerned so I would not doubt that they want a "radio ready" demo there....I just don't think that that is necessarily the case else where......From what I understand is that most rock bands(that write their own songs) that get signed submit demo's with less than up to par production and less than "great" performances with raunchy unproduced guitars, rough mixes and so on..........


-nave


-nave
 
I have sold songs to publishers (and have had publishing deals where I didn't sell the song). I use my studio to arrange and record demo's for a few songwriters who get placed with some consistancy. A good singer sells a demo!!!! In fact, we have had songs rejected, put a better singer on (same production) and the songs were accepted. A good singer brings emotion and life to a song - and more importantly phrasing and diction, so that you can understand the words!!

Publishers do want radio ready. Everyone has access to affordable, quality gear and publishers now expect this. Candidly, why would a publisher want to invest money to "re-demo" a song??

At one time I may have agreed that production was not as important as the song, but these days production is very important - as long as the production supports the song (ie: don't over produce). Do words and melody still count? Sure, but they are not the same foot in the door they may have been in years past.

So, believe what you want but I know with complete certainty that if you want to get published as a songwriter (vs. an artist/band) a good singer is worth the cost!!!

Buffalo Bob, your posts always appear to come from a strong basis of fact and experiance, and I agree with you completely on this issue.
 
Hey Bobbert,

I think I've seen other threads you have posted and I seem
to remember you're just starting out.
I assume you are on a shoestring budget---I know for sure
you have a passion for music...

Taking into account the above assumptions, here's what I
would do..You're in Wales, right????? Where are all those
beautiful Welsh voices???? In your local church---religious
or not, you will find some of the best voices anywhere
right down the street from you...

Good luck

Graham
 
hmm....
bobbert, what are you planning/trying to do?
are you pitching for a career as a songwriter or as a performing artist?
it seems to me that this is the burning question. if, in the end, you want to have a record contract and make albums, then you clearly have to find a way to work your own voice - with its lawnmower timbre - so that it fits the songs, or vice versa.
if you want to earn your bread through royalties (ie songwriting) then you need to have at least decent vocal on the demo. it doesn't need to reflect you, it needs to reflect the song. you could use different singers for songs that call for their individual sounds, but good A&R reps should be able to identify the best 'genre' for the song. maybe not the best, but the most profitable!

i agree with badgas that publishing houses look for songs. the words and the melody. any song can be worked any number of ways..... but the publishing house will sell it to the highest bidder, to be recorded in the way they want it. yes, the A&R reps may be 19-year old mail clerks, but it is the 19-yr old mail clerk who buys popular music, and seeing that the publishing houses make their deniro through popular songs, who better to sniff them out? if they employed some serious music afficionado, they would be less likely to find songs that they could sell to anyone!

either way bobbert, you need to showcase your songs. if it is with the intention of getting a recording deal for yourself, then you need to prove that you have the ability to use your voice appropriately. if it is to sell songs through a publishing deal, you need to have vocals that clearly bring out the melody/lyric (A&R reps decide which way they should ultimately be sung).

cheers! ;)
 
The main problem I've found with songwriters is their tendency to live in a dream world. "A & R people do this, or that..."
"......From what I understand is that most rock bands(that write their own songs) that get signed submit demo's with less than up to par production and less than "great" performances with raunchy unproduced guitars, rough mixes and so on.......... "
MikeH is a published writer, with ACTUAL CUTS, and he's telling you the straight dope- and you still insist on this mystical view of the business. It's incredible!
Bobbert initially said "I want it to be professional" about his demo. This means pro recording, pro performances, pro mixing, etc. It doesn't mean hissy 4-track tapes done with an inexperienced singer in a basement. If you are serious, get serious and learn the friggin business. Read the books. Learn from people who have actually been there, they are your greatest asset. Bobbert could spend thousands of dollars building his own "studio" to produce amateur product, or he could spend it in a real demo studio and have a radio-ready Professional product.

Bob
 
Buffalo Bob, I agree. Demos are like homework when you were in school; good handwriting counts! Slopy demo=no listen. Slick demo=lots of listens.
 
Wow

Wow, I didn't think the thread would spark that many replies!

I haven't been on in while, so I've just read most of the replies now, thanks all of ya, you all have great advice for li'l ole me here, which, I promise, will take on board...

If you'd like to know, I've been doing a bit more, I've managed to coax my voice into singing this parody song, even if it is a faked French accent :) so, I'll try to sign back when I proceed any further

Thanks again, everyone.
Bobbert
 
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