Delta, Gadget labs converter test

  • Thread starter Thread starter James HE
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J

James HE

a spoonfull weighs a ton
Well... MY GL 496 and my Delta 1010 are sitting comfortably with each other, sharing the same IRQ no less! I am able to record with both it seems. wooho! 12 analog ins!

so here's the test...

Chimes and blocks miced with a NT-1 through a Mackie 1402, split to the two cards. I recorded at 24 bit 44.1K. I uploaded a stereo file. One is on the left the other on the right (which is which will be disclosed later). download it at www.idrive.com Where it says "visit an i-drive" type in JamusHE. The file is in my storage the name is "Test(stereo)"

I'll not make my comments at this time, I'd like to hear opinions on the differences, also which you think is better and which you think is which. Open this up in a wave editor to see the waves if possible.

-jhe
 
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The levels are different between the two, which is curious, how was the signal split?

I thought the left channel had a bit more body to it, regardless of it's louder volume.

I split the stereo file to individual files panned center, too tough panning back and forth and my left ear is kinda messed lately.

So what's what? I can't hazard a guess. I also chopped it down to a few hits of the block left channel, followed by the same hits on the block, right channel. With the volumes adjusted to about equal. Looped that for awhile with wavelab minimized (with the fader off and not counting beats!), than maximized to see which I liked. Did that a few times hit and miss, the right channel tended to come up more as a positive, but the level missmatch makes me question the cabling, how it was routed etc.

Interesting stuff James, look forward to the results.
 
The volume difference was quite shocking to me too. I went out of the ALT 3/4 buss with the pan on the channel panned center. The left 3/4 out and right 3/4 out going to different cards. both were running at plus four. The cables are idetical, both new, Rapco with balanced neutrik ends. Now that I think about it, i should have swapped the cabling to be sure... I don't think it's the cabling though, could be something in the mixer buss, but I doub't that too. It seems more likely that it is due to the fact that the Gadget Labs +4 -10 switching is in software, while it is hardwired on the delta. The volume difference makes it tougher to form a solid opinion. But disregard the volume and it gets a bit easier. Very strange indeed.

hmmm... it's hard to keep a secret as to which is which but i don't want opinions to be swayed by ownership and the like, at least not yet.

How can I do this test better? what would you all like to hear as far as test material? I thought the chimes and the blocks would be a good source, more so than guitar or voice.

-jhe
 
I'd like to hear this test with a CD as the reference.

Any CD. Well not any CD, some light music that has a bit of everything. Some Pink Floyd or Holly Cole, doesn't really matter.

Record it with the same cables, out the inserts or direct outs or direct into the soundcard from your CD player. Two files, two passes. 8 bars or so, -10dB. Probably best to pick a middle of the road song as far as level, and go direct avoiding the mixer, both cards set -10.
 
ok, new game

www.idrive.com
JamusHE
"convertertest"

This proves it wasen't the cable! The volumes are about 2db different between cards/converters. Absolutly shocking! I recorded this snip from John Zorn and the Masada Chamber Ensambles "Bar Kokhba" I did it in two seperate passes, simply patching into a different card with the same cables. I Recorded it in Vegas, chopped it up and put it into a single stereo file. There is a second of silence between the samples. nothing else was done to the files but the split and then mixing to a new wave.

This test is a little harder to call than the chimes.

I'll go ahead and spill the beans. (After tomorrow I'll be gone for a week, no one will care then anyway- although it seems Emeric is the only one that does :)) The GL is the louder one. IN the first test, the Delta won hands down to me, I could hear the sound of the individual bars of the chimes clearer. The GL does have more "body" to it, even without the extra volume as Emeric said, but the Delta seems much more musical to me.

I'm happy to have both really, I like the sound of the Delta better, but who knows, maybe sometime I'd like to get that "Gadget" sound! :D

-jhe
 
Delta 1010 reverses polarity!?!

In my Delta/ Gadget Labs converter shootout, (thank's guys for really responding on this one :rolleyes: ) I had noticed a difference In the polarity of the signals from the two cards, which was confirmed when I posted my test on prorec. I really had no way of knowing which is which. It seems that it is the Delta card. A guy over there at prorec noticed that his 1010 was reversing the polarity with a royer ribbon mic. (the behavior of the mic in that situation is odd, go there for the explanation, took me a while to get what he way saying) I will do another test to try to confirm this.

So well what does this mean?

not much really. It does seem odd though. I wonder if M-audio did this on purpose. I may rewire every patch cable going to the breakout box to reverse the polarity (I think I know how to do this, reversing the hot wires) so that it comes out "right". (or will it?) Here's a question I'm not really sure about. Does polarity = phase, always, absolutly? Is a singal that is reversed polarity always reversed in phase? I can't think of a reason why this isn't so, but, one never knows...

I'll have to figure out if it does this on the outputs too...

very strange...

-jhe
 
Very strange indeed.

I happened to have a kick drum 1010 recording available and sure enough, the polarity is reversed.

I also had a kick drum recorded on an Aark 20/20, and.. sure enough the wave starts positive.
 
Ok, this has getting me confused now. Time to record some kicks.
 
I downloaded both files and here are my impressions.

In the chimes mp3 the left channel sounds much more clean and present to me. I tried boosting the right channel to compare them at an equal volume but I still thought that the left channel was sweeter. But I have no idea which card it was :)

As for the CD, I have no idea :)
My speakers are crap anyway, don't trust me.

But I think this was a great post, people should do this kind of thing more often. You know, record a guitar track or whatever with their new amp/mic/preamp/etc. post it and ask people to comment/compare/whatever.

Peace
 
ahhaaaa..

so what does this mean? nothing really, if everything is recorded in reverse polarity then its fine. but say you take a stereo miced guitar and ran one through the normal polarisation and one through the reverse, i think that would be a lot of phase cancellation? or am i talkin out my ass? anyway, if anybody wants hard proof, this is a kick wave form from vegas recorded through my delta 1010...

kickwaveform.gif


all tracks were reversed polarity as well, except this was by far the most obvious.

***edit*** ok use that URL if ou want to see it, somereason it says IMG vBcode is disabled on this forum.
 
hi James HE,

thanks for that test. And its nice to know that the delta 1010 came up on top again.

The polarity you noticed is interesting. I just wanted to say that polarity and phase are not always equal.

To test phase, record a kick and watch the speaker excursion. If the speaker moves out on the offset of the beat, then there is positive phase.

I tried this out and the delta 1010 was in phase.

So do you know how negative polarity affects sound?


peace
 
so far...

maudio support wrote me back asking what level i recorded at. and i answered that the specific screen shot i sent them of reversed polarisation kick drum was recorded at -10 because it was a dump from analog. but they havent written me back yet telling me what this means. I recorded my voice yesterdaty at +4 and it wasnt reversed.
 
ok now this just gets wierder. Thanks for sending M-audio that e-mail kristian.. I've been meaning to send one but haven't gotten to it.

-jhe
 
This could be corrected by software yes?
A driver update? We're not going to have to send all our delta's back to the shop are we?!?!?!?

Be sure to let us know what they say.

A dumb question for kristian:
How can you tell that the polarity is reversed?
 
When you look at the waveform in editor you can see that it alternates between above and below the horizontal centre line, sort of like a sine wave. If it goes 'up' first that is positive in most apps.
 
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