delta 66- more stuff?

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victorvickyvic

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Hey ya'll!

So I'm a newbie who just blew his life's savings on a Delta 66 Omni I/O package. (After lurking on some previous threads here, it seemed like a decent/popular choice.) Like most hardware addicts, I'm already planning on buying some more stuff. (I was only mostly kidding about the life savings bit). I've got 4 issues that I'd appreciate any opinions on:

1) MIDI input. So my computer came with an integrated Yamaha soundcard with no MIDI in (not even a joystick.) That was fine, because even if it came with a Soundblaster, my first move would have been to upgrade the soundcard. The Delta 66/Omni doesn't have a MIDI input. It recommends hooking your keyboard through a MIDIMAN Midi sound module (which, surprise, is also made by M-Audio) to one of the OMNI's line inputs.

My plan is (after reading some threads on this forum) to buy a Soundblaster card with a MIDI in instead of buying a dedicated MIDI converter. It'd be cheaper (I think) and this way I'd also have a decent soundcard for gaming. Are there any advantages to a separate MIDI converter that I'm not aware of?

On the other hand, the disadvantage to a separate soundcard is that using two soundcards simultaneously (in future projects) for inputs sounds kind of complicated/headache-y.

Would you folks recommend getting a separate sound card or a dedicated MIDI converter?

2) Omni output. Ummm, so I mentioned I'm a newbie, right? So I sort of forgot to budget for some studio monitors. I don't need anything great for now (I won't be mastering pro recordings anytime soon), I just need something to hear what I'm recording. A) Is it possible just to use the Omni headphone out for all monitoring and playback in lieu of monitors? B) Alternatively, could I hook the Omni output to my practice guitar amp's input and use that for monitoring? C) Can I hook up my "bundled with computer" speakers to the Omni outputs via a 1/8 to 1/4 adaptor? D) Can I un-disable my integrated Yamaha soundcard for playback and just use that for hearing back what I'm playing? Would that affect the duplex monitoring thing? E) Can anyone recommend some cheap monitors ($50-100) that I might obtain?

Options A-E are my choices ranked with most preferable first. Do you folks agree?

3) Speaking of cheap monitors, I've also been planning on buying Altec Lansing surround sound speakers ($50- 4 speakers and a subwoofer) for hearing DVD movies played back. You normally hook it up to the two outputs on your soundcard. (Which my Yamaha integrated soundcard doesn't have, but is another advantage to buying a Soundblaster card from Question #1) Is it possible to somehow get the four outputs from the Omni to be hooked up to surround sound speakers and subwoofer? Also, are there probelms with using a "dedicated audio recording soundcard" for general audio use?

4) A mixer. For now I'm planning on doing the one man band thing. Sequentially recording my keyboards "pre set drum patterns." Then recording my bass guitar track. Then recording my guitar and vocal tracks simultaneously. Then recording the lead instruments track. I think the Omni/Delta 66 is perfectly capable to do this, so I don't need a mixer for now, correct?

In the future though, I'm planning on recording my band's demo (drums, bass guitar, rhythm guitar, lead guitar, and vocals simultaneously). I'm figuring I'll need 8-10 tracks. Which means buying a mixer. Because of the Omni's two preamped inputs, I think an 8 track mixer should be sufficient, right?

Can anyone recommend a decent/cheaper mixer? I'm not looking for professional quality, just something decent. I've been tempted by the Behringer mixers in the $100-250 range. Any brands you recommend?

I'm not sure if this is the forum for it, but I'm also not sure what features I'd need. Since the Omni comes with two preamps for mics/guitars, I don't think I'd need any stereo outputs, 8 mono should be fine, right? Also, since most software comes with their own signal processing effects for post recording, would I really need a 3 band eq with sweepable mids, phantom power, and all the other bells and whistles?

Thanks in advance for all your help and advice,

Victor
 
I guess nobody loves me. (20 views, and no responses.) Or maybe I'm asking for too much too soon. Or maybe I just rambled so long that people forgot what I was asking. You don't have to answer all 4 issues, if you could reply to one though, I'd really appreciate it. To consolidate:

1. MIDI input- another soundcard or dedicated MIDI converter?

2. Cheap monitoring for Omni options?

3. Delta 66/Omni as a general use soundcard (surround sound for DVD's)

4. Suggestions for a mixer that works well with Delta 66/Omni to record a demo for a band.

And hey, even if you don't have any opinions, theories on why no one replied to me is good too. Did I ignore some etiquette? Are my questions already answered on a FAQ somewhere? Can you smell my BO over the internet? Thanks again,

Victor
 
1. Having just ordered an Omni/66, I was kind of hoping that it did do MIDI, buoyed by this text on their site:

• Four stereo aux inputs for MIDI devices
• Stereo Aux inputs 1 and 2 can be muted in the mixer and re-routed to the Delta line inputs for easy audio recording of MIDI instruments or other auxiliary inputs.

2. Try a search in these forums.

3. Don't know.

4. Sounds like you would not need a mixer, but if you want one, again try a search. Lots of praise for Mackie boards (e.g. http://www.mackie.com/record/1202vlzpro/index.html running about $400 retail) on this site.

wren
 
Well, at least you have a sense of humor, not a bad thing to maintain in these parts. I'll take a stab at a couple of your questions.

Midi input, check www.M-Audio.com. I think they have a card that is just an interface. The problem with a soundblaster is they have just too much software they load on your computer which you will never use. Now, if the computer will be used for games too then the Soundblaster is probably the best choice. The only problem is if you are new to computers and there is an IRQ issue, it will drive you nuts trying to solve it.

Cheap monitoring - M-Audio SP-5B- Studiophiles. These are being blown out at Guitar Center and Musicians Friend, ZZsounds etc. for $199 bucks. Great first time monitors. They were originally $400 speakers.

Don't know about surround but the Delta 66 is a great card.

Mixers - If you can pick up a used Spirit or Soundcraft mixer on ebay, they have a great sound, next I would look at a used Alesis or probably Mackies as they are easy to find. IMHO the Soundcraft/Spirit or Alesis have the best sounding mic pres. Don't even think about Behringer mixers. Cheap sounding and they don't flatter any mic I have.
 
Hey ya wren! Nice to know that there are people out there who aren't ignoring me.

To reply to you stuff:

>1. Having just ordered an Omni/66, I was kind of hoping that it >did do MIDI, buoyed by this text on their site:

Since I guess you're a newbie too, take it from me, the text on their site is... "misleading." What the text means is that it is capable of inputing MIDI you just need a converter first. If you don't believe me, you can dowloand the manual from m-audio's website. When I was soundcard shopping, I downloaded the manuals which tell you all the annoying things they left out of the advertisement/blurb. If you're hoping for MIDI access right away, you're going to be dissapointed. (On the plus side, the Omni/66 is great for what I'm doing now, drum machines. Then overdub bass. Overdub rhthm. Overdub lead. The pre mics are really good.)


>2. Try a search in these forums.

Tried that already. I STFW (or I guess STFBB), no answer.

>4. Sounds like you would not need a mixer, but if you want one, again try a search. Lots of praise for Mackie boards (e.g. http://www.mackie.com/record/1202vlzpro/index.html running about $400 retail) on this site.

I'm pretty sure I'd need a mixer, since micing drums can take 4-6 inputs by themselves.
Yeah, I know Mackie's are nice. But I just spent $300 for a soundcard, I'm hesistant to spend $400 for a mixer (I'm not sure if it's necessary to get a good one). See my next reply for details.

By the by wren, since you just bought the same thing I did, I'm curious what you were planning to do for the rest of your setup and what you're going to be using it for (personal recordings or demoing live bands etc.)

Good luck,

Victor
 
Middleman said:
>Midi input, check www.M-Audio.com. I think they have a >card that is just an interface. The problem with a soundblaster >is they have just too much software they load on your computer >which you will never use. Now, if the computer will be used for >games too then the Soundblaster is probably the best choice. >The only problem is if you are new to computers and there is an >IRQ issue, it will drive you nuts trying to solve it.

Actually, I'm curious in a general way about the necessity of maintaining a Dedicated Audio Workstation with today's computers. It was one thing when you had a Pentium II and 65 RAM, but I've got a Pentium 4, 512 RAM and 100 Gigabytes of hard drive space. Does having other programs on your recording machine really muck things up still (like the .dll files would interfere with how things run and stuff?)

Warning! Newbie question: Are all MIDI converters created equal? Is there more noise associated with a Soundblaster vs. a M-Audio? Or are they equal as long as there are clean connections? I'm thinking the digital signal is made in the keyboard and the input just needs to be relayed to the computer without processing. Or does the MIDI converter actually do somethign to the signal besides relay it?

By the by, I am new to computers, but I'm a quick learner (I think). For example I learned that if your computer shares IRQ numbers between your cards, you can just unplug one and reinstall it and the computer willl assign it a new random IRQ which hopefully won't match the other soundcard again. (Or are there more problems than this that I should be aware of?)

>Cheap monitoring - M-Audio SP-5B- Studiophiles. These are being blown out at Guitar Center and Musicians Friend, ZZsounds etc. for $199 bucks. Great first time monitors. They were originally $400 speakers.

Ouch! I just spent $300 for a soundcard, I'm hesitant to spend another $200 for monitors. (But those will probably be the second item I save up for, first a MIDI input, then some monitors).

Just to update you folks, I've been using my integrated soundcard
for playback with the Delta, and it seems to work. When overdubbing, I can only hear what I've already recorded, but not what I'm currently playing, so I have to imagine I'm hearing what I'm playing (the keyboards/bass). This might be a software issue though, because I have the same problem when I use the Delta as the playback card and I use headphones. (which by the way, really screw up the levels of things like bass guitar)

So no duplex recording for me right now. It might be a software issue, I have to play around some more.

I don't suppose anyone could tell me if using my guitar amp as a Delta output (for monitoring purposes) is likely to blow anything up? If it would work but just sound really bad, I might give it a try since it might still sound better than what I'm using right now.


>Don't know about surround but the Delta 66 is a great card.

Umm, I don't suppose anyone could tell me what the difference is between the Soundblasters two outputs and the Delta's 4 outputs. (Like does the soundblaster card automatically split signals up into treble and bass signals, and is there a patch that would let the Delta do something similar?)

>Mixers - If you can pick up a used Spirit or Soundcraft mixer on ebay, they have a great sound, next I would look at a used Alesis or probably Mackies as they are easy to find. IMHO the Soundcraft/Spirit or Alesis have the best sounding mic pres. Don't even think about Behringer mixers. Cheap sounding and they don't flatter any mic I have. [/B]
Click to expand...

Thanks for the recommendations, I'll look into them. They sound kind of expensive right now (Okay, so first a MIDI input, then a monitor, then a mixer)

I'm curious if anyone has found a way to use a cheaper mixer with the Delta though. I figure I could use the Omni's pre amps for vocals and such, but use the cheap mixer preamps for bass drum or rhythm guitar or bass or something. I'm curious if anyone out there who has a Delta card as part of a cheap studio could let me know what elements they're happy with, and what bits I should avoid.

Thanks everyone!

Victor
 
Actually, I'm curious in a general way about the necessity of maintaining a Dedicated Audio Workstation with today's computers. It was one thing when you had a Pentium II and 65 RAM, but I've got a Pentium 4, 512 RAM and 100 Gigabytes of hard drive space. Does having other programs on your recording machine really muck things up still (like the .dll files would interfere with how things run and stuff?)
Click to expand...

Not really, but I just did not need all the junky software they bundle with the Soundblaster and I like to keep the dlls and their references out of the registry so my boot time is faster and to reduce potential conflicts.

Are all MIDI converters created equal? Is there more noise associated with a Soundblaster vs. a M-Audio? Or are they equal as long as there are clean connections? I'm thinking the digital signal is made in the keyboard and the input just needs to be relayed to the computer without processing. Or does the MIDI converter actually do somethign to the signal besides relay it?
Click to expand...

Midi is just 1s and 0s transmitted serially so there is no noise associated with their transmission. If the design is flawed however the midi interface could be noisy on the computer buss. M-Audio stuff is not a problem in this area.

By the by, I am new to computers, but I'm a quick learner (I think). For example I learned that if your computer shares IRQ numbers between your cards, you can just unplug one and reinstall it and the computer willl assign it a new random IRQ which hopefully won't match the other soundcard again. (Or are there more problems than this that I should be aware of?)
Click to expand...

Up to a point this is true. If you are using ACPI turned on (in your bios) then things occasionally get messed up if you have an exessive amount of cards in the computer, remember this scheme shares IRQ requests and does not always give each card its own dedicated IRQ. Motherboard designs, specifically bios handling, can also be an issue which causes problems. So, just moving a card does not always work.

The rest, I don't have the Delta 66 so I can't respond. Regarding the expense, I spent $1200 over 2 years on my studio and could do demos but not approaching the pro sound. I am currently upgrading everything to just to get to a semipro sound. Another $2000. There is a saying about boats that they are a hole in the water into which you continue to pour money. A home studio is the same thing. But hey, if you love what your doing.......
 
Hey ya folks!

It's been a while since I've checked this site (I've been busy playing with my new soundcard.)

But just to let you folks know how the story ends (since I guess over 100 people read my post), I found a Soundblaster card for cheap that supports Surround sound and midi, so I'll probably be using that for monitoring now

I also decided not to worry about the mixer thing until I really need one.

When I cam back to the site though, I read that in the past couple of weeks there has been a bunch of people complaining about the delta (which is ironic, since perusing this BB is what helped me decide on the delta in the first place.)

Ah vell. Live and learn,

V
 
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