Delta 66, Logic Audio, Latency, and Chopping Down the Damn Pear Tree: Part 2!!!

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pisces7378

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Ok this is a continuation from the last saga about latency, pops, and clicks, and over all problems that I have been happening since I bought and installed the Delta 66 Sound Card into my Pent III 933 MHz 128 MB RAM Computer. I think I have solved SOME of the problems and in doing so, created more. Here is the situation as of 10:35 a.m. EST.

I recorded a guitar track over several Midi tracks. Played it back... and it sounded great. I added effects via the many Plug-Ins with Logic Audio Platinum. And it sounded better than great. I was a gitty as a school lad. I played around with the effects all morning, trimming the compression here, adding reverb there, EQ there, a little chorus there. WONDERFUL!!! It played back the same each time. Then I shut down Logic Audio Platinum and went to eat lunch. When i came back and re-opened the song, it played exactly like I left it, for about 10 measures, and then the audio track (guitar) started to lag behind and swing out of phase, and it got worse and worse until it was totally behind the midi files. So I shut it down again and re-booted... same thing, except this time it started in a different place, about 15 or so measures into it. Then I shut down again, and it did it again excpet 5 measures into it this time. And so on and so on, each time starting to lag in a different place. What is that? I know I only have 128 MB of RAM but only ONE audio track???

What in the hell is wrong?

Mike
 
Getting back to an earlier issue, which, if any, of the following boxes are checked in the Audio>Audio Preferences>Audio Driver tabs: PC AV, Wave Player, VS, Audiowerk, Direct I/O, DS2416, ASIO?
 
checked or unchecked

PC AV: UNchecked
Wave Player: UNchecked
VS: UNchecked
Audiowerk: UNchecked
Direct I/O: UNchecked
DS2416: UNchecked
ASIO: CHECKED

So I don't know if I have done something wrong. The way I thought, there were 4 or 5 drivers available i.e. PC AV, Wave Player, ASIO etc. and we can choose which one we want to use. Is that REALLY off base?

Now I am getting a dialog box everytime I start up Logic Audio Platinum that says: The following song was created using PC AV (I think that is what it says) Whould you like to convert it to ASIO settings? Then CONTINUE or CONVERT. Each time I just click on convert, since you said that you use ASIO always.

Another problem that I am having is... When I try to multi-track record audio (guitar) I can do two tracks fine, no problem, sounds GREAT. But when I lay down the 3rd track, and then play it back, it gets to the measure where the third track comes in and it stops and gives says ASIO DRIVER HAS REACHED IT'S MAXIMUM OVERLOAD!!! And the midi tracks continue to play, but the audio is dead. I may not need 144 tracks but a few more than TWO would be nice.

Also, with regards to the Control Pannel of the Delta 66...
I have gotten 15 e-mails and tons of posts, all saying different things. "ap" told me that he sets his DMA Buffer size for the ASIO to something like 2866. Well in my HARDWARE SETTINGS, that is not even a possibility. The drop down menu goes from 100 to 2700 samples per buffer, in strange incruments like 100, 200, 300, 400, 700, 1200, 1600, 2100, 2700. At the moment I have it set on 700. Is that to low? or to high? I have a 933 MHz Pent III with 128 MB of RAM. Each time I try to change it, it gives the same dialog box saying: BY CHANGING THIS SETTING YOUR SYSTEM WILL HAVE xxxxx microseconds or letency at 44.1 kHz, and xxxx milisecs at 48 KHz etc. Then a warning about pops and clicks at too low of a number. But when I go any higher than 700 I get noticable latency when recording the guitar tracks.

Also, I have the Roland JV 1010 sound module that I use for my midid module. So far I have been just recording the audio tracks over the midi tracks, but if I want to add plug in effects to the midi tracks, and then eventually burn them to CD to submit to Mtv and all the major labels :D ( joke) I have to record the Midi as .wav files. Well I have the split end stereo cable with 2 mono plugs and one TRS stereo plug on the other, and I am runing it out of the 2 OUTS in the back of the ROLAND JV 1010 and into the LINE IN #1 of the Delta OMNI I/O Delta 66 box. But when I hit record in the Logic, it doesn't record them as audio. Why not? I have the JV 1010 in perform mode. And and I am monitoring the signal through headphones pluged into the DELTA 66 and not the Roland, so I am 100% sure the signal IS going through the sound card. But it just does not record the Midi as Audio. in fact nothing happens, I just listen to the midi files and watch the audio record bar stay flat and dead.

OK hopefully this is all the problems I am experiencing at the moment.

If someone answers them all, then they are a fucking prince.

Really, I apppreciate it guys,
Mike
 
Whoa! Stop the MUZAK there buddy.

***you state in your original configuration description(wish you had kept this all one thread :) ) that you use Windows Mill Ed., but in a later post you say you have Delta driver version 5.12.1.1 or something, BUT, the 5.**.*.* drivers are Windows 2000 drivers, NOT ME drivers! ***

You either made a simple mistake in your description or you loaded the wrong drivers during installation- I'm guessing it wouldn't even allow you to boot if you did, but then again, I really don't know enough to say one way or the other.

Let's get this straightened out before tackling the rest of your questions.
 
Drivers

I installed whatever drivers were on that CD that came with the Delta 66? During instalation, it never asked me which OS I was using. So I don't know.

Mike
 
What the hell have I done now???

I was sitting on the edge of my bed playing the guitar through the Delta 66 without recording, in Idle mode, and suddenly the sound cut out and the guitar doesn't work anymore. What is that? It isn't the Delta 66. I plugged another cable into the same input and when I put my finger to the other end, I heard that tell tale Bzzzz Bzzz bzzzzzzzz that you hear when you do that. But when I pluged the guitar back in...NOTHING. This is a BRAND NEW Dean markley Pop in Acoustic Pickup. How can it fuck up so fast?

Mike
 
WINDOWS

I am using WIndows Millineum Edition

Windows ME
 
Drivers

But I followed the instructions to the "T". The instal Wizzard was supposed to choose the drivers that were best suited to my system and install them. I installed the card hardware, and then when I turned the PC on, it prompted me to insert the Drivers CD, which I did, and then it pretty much did the rest. I just clicked NEXT NEXT and FINISH. How could I be using the wrong drivers?
 
This got me through my setup with no problems.

I'm sorry, I didn't expect to "reprint" it so I can't remember who to give proper credit to. :( I also copied it as a text only file, so some links and diagrams may be missing.


"Setting Up the M Audio Delta series devices with Logic Audio - Windows


Setting Up the M Audio Delta series devices with Logic Audio.


If by some chance this info doesn't help...or you'd just like to get

in touch with other Delta series users (particularly the 1010),

then point your clickin' finger here to visit the Delta User Forum.

Ensure that you are running LAW 4.5.x or higher and that you

have the December 18th, 2000 or later drivers from M-Audio.

ALL Delta units have HARDWARE monitoring which allows

analogue/digital inputs (dependent on model) to be heard via

any combination of digital or analogue outputs while recording.

This is controlled via the software mixer that ships with the card.

The mixer applet should be run at all times when you're using

Logic Audio, particularly if you're switching between digital

recording and analogue (and/or digital) monitoring/playback.



I STRONGLY suggest the use of the MME drivers as opposed to

the ASIO drivers. Latency is excellent with the MME drivers, and

non-existent when the card is externally clocked from an

Audiowerk 8.



In Logic Audio, dependent on the type of Delta device you're

using, you must set the appropriate INPUT and OUTPUT ports in

your Environment's Audio objects. This will vary from card to card,

but in the case of the DiO 2496, Inputs 3 & 4 are

the SPDIF and Inputs 1 & 2 are the Optical. On the output side of

things, Outputs 1 & 2 are analog and 3 & 4 are SPDIF.



The Setup Procedure - Thanks to Bob Campbell for this one

You must create a virtual driver device using the Virtual Device

setup program. (LADS - Logic Audio Device Setup)

You will find the program in the same folder as the logic.exe file

(probably C program files\Emagic\Logic Audio Platinum or

thereabouts).

Run the program and it will find all the ins and outs for your Delta

and any other soundcards present.

At the top left, click on New to create a new device.

Rename it to "Delta 66/1010 etc".

Then look in the two windows at the right for the outs and ins of

the Delta.

I recommend that you set the virtual device to record from the

Monitor Mixer channel of the Delta only.

Then add an output pair or more than one pair, depending on

what you aim to use.

Bear in mind that the more outs and ins you activate, the more

stress Logic

will put on your system, even if you are only recording and

playing via one pair of in and outs at that time. So stick to the

minimum.

Once you've added the ins and outs, look at the left hand side,

make sure Enabled is ticked.

Then click on 16bit at the left hand side unless you plan to use

24bit.

Make sure that full duplex is ticked, tick stereo only if you plan to

only use stereo, and interpolate position should be ticked. I'm

not sure if output position makes much difference.

Then swing the Granulation slider all the way to the right.

Once you've done this, click on OK.

Now, you can run Logic, in the Hardware and Drivers config tab,

you should now see "Delta 66"

Select this in the flip menu and LA should try a "relaunch". If this

fails, reboot logic.

I recommend that you stick to recording from the Delta Monitor,

as this allows you to patch any number of the Delta's hardware

INS to the Monitor channel by using the first tab of the Delta

Control Panel, and then you can record this mix

as a track in Logic, which is much more flexible than actually

constantly changing the input device in Logic.
Click to expand...
 
That's from David Bellingham's FAQ site.

This may not be the best advice, esp. about the MME drivers, this was written awhile ago. Seems most Logic users are on ASIO or EASI. I actually called Delta tech support about this and the guy made out like MME was crazy. My impression from looking around the other boards out there is that EASI is still somewhat imperfect and ASIO is pretty solid, esp the version .27.

Of course I'm using 98se and things may be different w/ ME.

Can't understand why your machine loaded the 5.**** drivers. Maybe I'm missing something.

AFIK, you shouldn't have to use LADS unless you are installing a new sound card or input source. All that configuration stuff should have been done automatically during the initial installation of Logic. *Did you install all the Delta stuff and get it working correctly first, before installing Logic? This would make a difference.*

Also, I think setting Logic to record only from the monitor mixer may be a good idea if you have a lesser machine but with your computer it is unnecessary.
 
Instalation order

I installed the Logic Audio like 7 months befoer I got this Delta 66. I have already worked all the Midi tracks out, more or less the way I like them to be. And now the idea was to simply buy this sound card, pop it in, lay down the guitar and vocal tracks, then wait for the chicks and money to role in. ;)

I have no idea what AFIK, or LADS means? Also, I was just wondering... do I need more than one driver running at the same time to get the Delta to run? At the moment I only have ASIO checked off in Logic. Should I check off another? Why am I getting an "ASIO overload" problem when I try to use more than 3 audio tracks at once?

And most IMPORTANTLY to me at this moment... why can I not record the midi files as Audio .wav files? I have been running the 2 stereo OUTS of the Roland JV 1010 into the line in on the BACK of the Delta 66 Omni I/O break out box. So far I have tried to simply click record in Logic, and try to make the Audio track popluate itself with the feed in from the stereo out of the JV 1010. Is that wrong? Obviously it is, because I don't get anything recorded that way. I want to record the drum tracks onto seperate audio tracks. For example, take the kck drum on audio track 1 so that I can EQ it lower and Compress it to get the thump I am looking for, but not fuck with the high hat which I want on track 2 (for example) and so on. Then have the bass guitar on track 6 or whatever. Then I will eventually have 14-16 audio tracks including, vocals, guitar, bass, and drum tracks, all as audio. Nut if I am getting ASIO overload at 3 tracks, I am afraid this will be imposible.

Now I will be getting 128 MB more RAM in a few days.

Anyway, I'd greatly appreciate any help you guys can offer.

Mike

P.S. "ap" really man, thank you especially. You have been great. I will remember it and hopefully be able to help you in something sometime.
 
I feel your pain.

Dude, if it was me, I'd :

(1)go to the Bellingham or Delta w/Logic forum and post something like "Best driver for ME and Delta66." Also, be sure and describe how your system loaded 5.** drivers when it's supposed to be 4.**- you'll see why I think this is wrong if you take a good look at Delta's driver web page, but like I already said, I could be missing something. Ask their opinion on the best version # as well as ASIOvsEASI etc. Wouldn't hurt to ask about which boxes to check either.

(2)go to Delta's site and download the best driver, the *uninstaller*, and the documents for the uninstaller and drivers- but don't install or uninstall anything yet.

(3) read the documents and digest every sentence. Read the uninstaller document first. Then, when you read the driver document, you can ignore the instructions on how to manually uninstall the old drivers- cuz you have the "Uninstaller", which was made after the driver document, probably cuz noone could successfully pull off the manual uninstall!

(4)take a deep breath

(5)Save everything you want to keep and uninstall Logic

(6)uninstall Delta, now you read the instructions on the driver document, right? One thing the document is vague on: you should control panel>system>device manager>sound,video and game controllers, click on Delta66 and hit 'remove' at bottom of window

(7)reinstall Delta w/ diskette containing new drivers

(8) play around for awhile and make sure everything works: can you hear your guitar, cd's played on your computer through Delta, system beeps, etc.

(9)install Logic, and set up the driver tab according to the suggestions you hopefully received.

(10)start building a brand new song to experiment w/ before trying to work w/ those previously made midi tracks.


AFAIK- As Far As I Know

LADS- it's in vox's post, and in the Logic 'getting started manual'

Use one driver

ASIO overload: I get this from time to time and I think it's only when I've been monkeying around with a bunch of other non-audio apps. It usually only happens once, I stop the song, check some random settings and it doesn't come up again. I don't think it's ever happened when I boot to my 'audio only' partition. But, I digress. Don't worry about this until after you've done all the reinstallations. If you insist on working w/ it now, before starting Logic, try hitting ctrl+alt+del and 'end task' everything but systray.

JV to Delta: Pretty sure your cable connection is wrong. Those delta inputs should be mono, not stereo. You need one cable and one input for each stereo output, L and R, that makes two cables and inputs. They don't have to be TRS either. That's just if you want to use balanced lines, and the JV1010 output isn't balanced anyway, so there's no point.
 
OK

Alright, I am back. I was having problems with my guitar pick up (Dean markley pop in) that oput me out of commission for a few weeks. but now I am back. I finally just called Midiman themselves and waited on the phone for literally 40 minutes. And with the international phone call (I live in Munich) it cost me over $35 just sitting there listening to the music on hold. Finally they said the same thing that everyone els has... you are using the wrong drivers. I was like NO SHIT MAN!!!!! but I had tried and tried to get the correct version, but my windows mellinium edition only runs in German so I was having trouble un-installing the drivers and re-installing the new ones. So I got him to walk me through that by e-mail. But It still didn't work. So I finally called my brother in law and stumbled through german with him to get him to explain to me the VERY simple process of re-installing drivers. So FINALLY, I have the 4.***** drivers and not the 5.***** up and running.

However, I ma back to square one so to speak. Now I hear nothing on playback, and can not record a single thing. When I try to play back I get the warning.... "ASIO overload! System failed" and it just dies. 90%$ of the time, when I boot Logic up, I get one of 2 warnings.... one says, "ASIO device is malfunctioning!!!" and then I have nothing. Or I get "The song you are opening was created using PC AV settings would you like to convert it to ASIO?".

Now, "ap" (the homerec.com guy) has hellped me more than any man deserves to be helped for free, and I am completely thankful for all his help. But I have also received 100 piecesd of advice from 1,000 people, and it has all run together. I try it all, and even some combinations of many advices, and I am still up shits creek. Can ANYONE out there that knows how to do it, simply take some screen shots of their Delta 66 control Pannel and send it to me? My e-mail address is dolmetscherrecords@hotmail.com.

It has been 1 1/2 months since I bought this sound card and I have yet to be even 25% happy. I have recorded about 32 measures on one track with a guitar, and then play another 32 measures on track 2. It sounds GREAT!!!! But the headaches plus the heafty price tags somehow just have not balanced out the benifits of this card so far. Can anyone please help save me from hating this company?

Thanks,

Mike
 
still watching

How 'bout give us a more detailed update. Exactly what driver version and Logic version do you have now. Generally, how did you go about the install? i.e. did you unistall all Delta files and Logic? Did you reinstall Delta first and make sure it worked before reinstalling Logic?

I remeber you have a pretty kick-ass system, but what kind of hard drive do you have? 7200?

Is your system store bought name brand. Maybe you have a IRQ conflict, but I'm kinda just guessing.

Did you try ctrl+alt+del and "end task" on everything but 'explorer' and 'systray' before running Logic?

About the screenshots, since I don't have Word, I guess I can't do that, but maybe you could convert your's to a different format and email 'em. Maybe print 'em out and scan 'em as jpg's. That would work, but there' probably a better way.
 
My system

Ok,

First of all here is my PC specs:

Pent III, 933 MHz, 128 MB RAM, 40 GB HDD (normal 5600rpm)
Fujitsu/Siemens Store bought at Media Markt in Munich Germany.
I have a 56K modem. No idea what kind of mother board.

I am planning on getting 128 MB more RAM in a few weeks, but there is no way that is my problem now.

I tried to ctrl+alt+del and get the system cleared out, and it worked a little bit, but it still "overloaded the driver" about 30 seconds into the song.

I am using Windows ME, and despite the fact that the Delta 66 says it is fully compatiable, the Logic Audio Platinum doesn"t seem to boast this. Can it be a damn Opperating System conflict between my LAP and Win Me?

I have the absolute most rescent drivers, that I downloaded from Midiman.com 3 days ago. I installed them exactly in acordance with the directions. Ran the un-installer, then re-booted and inserted the diskette with the drivers that I had downloaded, and installed them.

My girlfriend has gone to Cologne for 4 days so I have nothing better to do (pathetic I know), but what I am going to do is, post my damn screen sets on the internet on my personal home page of www.mikeperkins.net

This will hopefully one day be a much better website, but at the moment I am dedicating it to Home recording. And my other hobbies. I will e-mail you when the screen sets are there.

Thanks a million man,

Mike
 
Delta control panel>About should tell you the exact version #. By newest, I assume you have the 4.1.22.35. And newest isn't always the best idea- let all the experts work out the bugs and give the 'OK' before using a new driver. The .27 version has received good feedback... at least for win98.

Which version of Logic?

Go to start>run, and type "dxdiag" and tell us what version of direct x you have. Anything but 7.0 is supposed to be "ungood", I think.

Did you follow all the steps I suggested? Don't really blame you if didn't but I can't think of anything else. I feel like your most likely problem is that Logic is not configured to your soundcard, and it should correctly configure if you uninstall Logic and reinstall.
 
If I un install Logic

I have Logic Audio Platinum 4.7

If I uninstall Logic and re-install it. Will I have to re-do all the set up preperation that I have forgotten already? Will it re-boot blank, like it did the first day? How can I save the settings I have now so that I do not have to re-configure the Midi stuff again. That was 9 months ago and I stumbled through it as it is. I would choke if I had to suddenly do all that again.

WE NEED A LOGIC FORUM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad:

Thanks,
Mike
 
When I install Logic with my 1010, and 66 shouldn't be too different, it comes up ready to go. During the install process, Logic goes through your system, finds your sound card and automatically sets itself up. I can literally install Logic, run it, go to the audio environment(the screen that looks like a mixer), set my input(one mouse move), arm the track, hit record, and start recording.

But I wouldn't recommend doing that. First thing after installing, I would uncheck PC AV, check ASIO, uncheck everything but 20/24 bit recording(you should probably check 'larger disk buffer' since you have a 5200rpm drive- man that's a pity on a system like that)

Another thing, is there another sound card on your system, either PCI or onboard the mobo? If so you should be 100% certain it's 100% disabled before even trying to do anything. This would definitely screw up Logic automatic setup. In the 'Driver' window, under ASIO, does it say anything but 'M Audio ASIO Driver' and 'No Driver'? What about under control panel>system>device manager>sound, video and game controllers?
 
Man At Work

At the moment I am at work and not in front of my system. But I wanted to say that on the AUDIO DRIVERS 2 Tab, there is the M Audio ASIO and if you click on it and hold, then a drop menu apears that has NO DRIVERS as an option. Don"t know what that means. Also, yes I have an ONBOARD sound card that came with the machine. I THINK I have it all gone away. Under the Device Manager under sound video, and game controllers, I have like 4 things, one is the M Audio Delta 66 sound card, and one was clearly marked SOUND CARD and I disabled it to wherre there is a big red X through it. But there are 2 things there that are not X'd out. Should I X them out as well? I can't remember if the Midi interface (Midiman 2x2) is one of them. If so then obviously do not X it out. But I have no idea what the other is for. It is writen in technical German.

Also, I am trying to get a 7200 HDD, but I need some tips on how much they cost in the US, and is there a brand that is better than another? I have heard that Maxtor makes a great one? When people talk about these dedicated Audio 7200 HDDs, are they refering to an external HDD or internal? Are they hard to install? Do I need to keep the software (Logic) on the normal drive? How big should the drive be? I heard that HUGE can mean poor performance? What is a good size at 7200 rpms?

Also, RAM? If I go into a PC store and say, "I want some memory" and he startes talking about SD-RAM, D-RAM, etc. Which one is the one I need? And are the different brands equal? Also, what is a good amount? Should I stop at 256 MB ram or should I go ahead and outfit the computer to it's highest capabilities? 5** MB ram? Or is that total overkill?

THanks,
Mike
 
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