Delta 44 or Echo Gina 24 - help me decide!

K

kirkhere

New member
I'm looking into one of these two cards for a series of project studio recordings that friend is writing. He put some "demos" together and has asked me to pick up the project.

He was working with a Mackie VLZ1202 Pro and the older Gina 20, but driver support for Win2K and later Win XP is beta only, and will not be further developed from Echo. I haven't been thrilled with it. I'm looking for something to replace it with since I'm running XP only.

My inclination was to stick with Echo and go to the Gina24... but several aspects of the Delta 44 cards appeal to me more.

In Delta's favor, I count:
--mic pre-amps supporting +4 and -10, bal and unbal input (which I don't need at this time, but which would be useful without bringing the Makcie along);
--broader driver support; switchable input levels
--more flexible software routing/mixing
--about $100 less

In Gina24's favor I count:
--higher dynamic range peak (according to the specs)
--built-in headphone monitor with vol control on the breakout box

Just plain differences which don't I don't believe affect this decision since I don't currently multitrack or use SPDIF:
--Delta 44 has 4 in and 4 out
--Gina 24 has 2 in and 8 out
--Gina has SPDIF

Final thoughts... I was considering the Delta Omni Studio (the Detla 66 plus the Omni I/O), but I believe that it's overkill, considering I have the Mackie. Plus its cost is about the same as the Gina24! If I ultimately determine that I need to spend that much, then I'd probably go with the OmniStudio for the added value that the extra hardware offers (even if I may not need it immediately).

I'd appreciate it if anyone had any opinions about this setup, or other gear that you'd point me toward. I'm always interested in learning more, particularly if my own decisions may not be the best!

Thanks,

kirkhere
 
Just a clarification - the Delta 44 does not have Mic preamps. You will have to plug your mics into your Mackie, and then the Mackie into the Delta 44. FWIW, I've had the Delta 44 for a couple of years without any problems. I'm running it now on Windows 2000 and it works great with the new WDM drivers.
Good luck!
 
kirkhere,

I went through this exact same thing about a year ago. Buddy of mine was trying to sell me on the 44 and then I stumbled across the Delta 66 with Omni Studio - never looked back.

Trust me - once you get going with the Omni, you won't be needing that Mackie anymore. I got rid of my mixer about a month after getting the Onmi. It is just that flexible.

If at all possible - try and grab the 66 with Onmi Studio. You will grow into it's flexibility even tho you may not need it right now.

Cheers,

Cuzin B
 
gordone - You're right. I had misread this line on the Delta 44 page: "With the Omni I/O as its front end, the Delta 44 gains 2 pristine mic preamps" and somehow missed the reference to the Omni I/O part. Doh! Thanks for the heads-up.

Cuzin B - You sold your mixer, no kidding? I had in fact searched the archives and followed your thread from back then, and was quite impressed (learned a lot too, which is one of the reasons I looked more seriously into the Studio combo). While I admit I haven't used Mackie to its full potential, and probably never will, it's hard to conceive of letting it go .... must be the KPD factor my wife often mentions ("knobs per dollar" ... a method of measuring "the obvious value and importance" of a piece of gear).

The project is simple... recorded narration, music under, and sfx. From 2-4 characters on the average, and nothing overly dramatic or suspenseful. Mostly, he had been recording a track at a time, using Sonic Foundry's Video Vegas to edit the pieces together (his background in video had led him there). It seems quite capable of handling the task.

Let me ask you this... and it may cover a lot of ground beyond just immediate question itself... is this just overkill for the job at hand? I'm not a musician, but a skilled technical writer and video editor (and I can keep a beat and hold a note pretty well!), yet I've read about many home project players on the BBS who record tracks to disk, then play them back through an interface to a mixer where they mix all the tracks down before final mastering.

The idea of mixing this material faster is appealing. Hand-tweaking the narration (fixing pauses, goofs, bad takes) and the sfx (volume, fx, etc.) along the music takes quite a bit of time more than I had anticipated. The concept of live playback where I could tweak some knobs is really appealing, but given the tweak-per-instance nature of this kind of editing, is that feasible here? Video editing is different from music, and this type of project seems more like a video edit than a music mix. Is there another approach to handling it? I'd be thankful if you had any feedback there. (And it's no problem if you prefer not to divulge personal/professional secrets.)

My current line of thinking that perhaps the Omni Studio solution is best, that I'll likely continue editing in the manner I described, and that ultimately someday the Mackie may be outta here. But I wanted to get another opinion in case I missed something important.

Thank you again,

kirkhere

P.S. Here's a final question. Though it seems silly on the surface, it has bearing here because I'm curious how if may affect the way I work now.

When I'm editing at home, I'm using one mic input, 3 stereo pair inputs (CD, keyboard, computer system), and the tape deck I/O on the Mackie. This allows me to do the primary editing I've been doing, as well as pump the output of another computer system (my kids' game machine) through the speakers in the room to let them enjoy "big sound" for their games. Would I be able to do this with the Omni Studio? I've not been entirely able to work out the I/O rigging just looking through their manual, but I haven't had the quiet time to delve deeply into it yet. From your experience with the Omni, does it sound like I'd still be able to do that without plugging/unplugging? Just wanted to ask. It wouldn't be a clinching issue, but I'm curious.
 
kirkhere

Okay - (big breath) Here goes with some answers for ya:

1. You sold your mixer, no kidding?

Yep - well first I put off to the side of my studio thinking I would need it a day or 2 later. Then I hooked up the Omni and started going at it. As the capabilities started to bloom...the dust started to gather. Finally, the Bargain Finder started to beckon and soon it was gone. I used the cash to supplement my studio with more software. Best sale I ever made.

I should preface by saying (or maybe you saw this in my former posts) - I run a digital media services company. We specialize in the creation of all kinds of audio media for broadcast (radio/TV), web, multimedia...and everything I do is digital so a hardware mixer is kind of passe'. There is no need for it in our main studio.

Anyhoo...

2. Let me ask you this... and it may cover a lot of ground beyond just immediate question itself... is this just overkill for the job at hand? I'm not a musician, but a skilled technical writer and video editor (and I can keep a beat and hold a note pretty well!), yet I've read about many home project players on the BBS who record tracks to disk, then play them back through an interface to a mixer where they mix all the tracks down before final mastering.

I will walk your through a typical project in my studio - While I don't synch audio to video, editing audio is a breeze. The key here to spread the work around - I use all the Sonic Foundry apps (Vegas, Soundforge and Acid) and speed is right there once you get comfy. Let's say - a 60 sec radio promo is on the bench for today...here's my workflow:

a) Creation (raw Voicetrack (direct to Forge)
b) Edit and cleanup (all in Forge)
c ) Assembly (In Vegas)
d) Mixdown (In Vegas)
e) Master (In Forge)

Because editing can be a real inspiration zapper, I put my head into drudgery mode and clean up all possible bits in Forge first and break em down to bit size pieces. Then I start a new project in Vegas and begin assembling the elements. Knowing that all my bits are all ready to go as is allows me to really get nuts with the production at hand. Actually - I hardly ever edit anything in Vegas. Vegas is a excellent app but doesn't have nearly the tool set that Forge has for dealing with editing. I use it to assemble only in this situation.

In your case - you probably don't have this flexiblility (not sure if the project was handed over to you or what) But yes - stopping down every few seconds to clean something up can be tedious. If you are planning on doing more of this kind of work - you may need to add a few tools in your toolbox.

3. When I'm editing at home, I'm using one mic input, 3 stereo pair inputs (CD, keyboard, computer system), and the tape deck I/O on the Mackie. This allows me to do the primary editing I've been doing, as well as pump the output of another computer system (my kids' game machine) through the speakers in the room to let them enjoy "big sound" for their games. Would I be able to do this with the Omni Studio?

Omni will handle all of your needs with no problem. Not sure what you mean by "as well as pump the output of another computer system (my kids' game machine)" Does this happen while you are editing?

Hope this helps...it's a great system

Cuzin B
 
Thanks Cuzin B, you covered me excellently! I feel quite confident in going this route now.

You asked... "Not sure what you mean by "as well as pump the output of another computer system (my kids' game machine)" Does this happen while you are editing?"

No. Sometimes the kids come down and want to play a game, and I can use the break. I refuse to install games on my main work system, so I have an older machine sitting idle for that. Rather than have another set of speakers and wire, I simply ran the sound from that system into the mixer and the boys get to hear it with some oomph. I was curious if there were enough audio inputs available on the Omni to retain this kind of setup. Not a decision-breaker in the big picture!

Thank you again,

kirkhere
 
Kirk,

Not a problem. You could run the sound out of the old box into the Omni easily. It's Insert capability would work great for this. I use inserts for my portable CD player and my turntable but it would be real easy to line the soundcard from another system into an available insert.

Cheers,

Cuzin B
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top