Delta 1010/Sonar 2.1 XL question....

[Zed10R]

I've got a question that I'm sure someone will be able to answer really easily.

I've been using a powered mixer with stereo lines out and phantom power for tracking vocals and the occasional guitar. The mixer outs are stereo, one left one right. The track view in Sonar shows the one track recorded in stereo with left and right split. That's real nice 'cause when I process streo effects, I get stereo effects out of one single track. I like that. Since A single channel pre does not have stereo out, my question is this:

When I track using the single mono channel pre, will I have less stereo effect when double tracking with it than when I double track with the stereo mixer? And, when I track vocals (single mono track) will I get a stereo effect when I process chorus and reverb for a streo result, or do I have to copy/paste the mono vocal track, pan L/R a little, and THEN process effects for a stereo result?

Anyone getting me here? I'm a little confused.....

 

[mixsit]

Tracking 'mono would be more typical I would think, and mono feeding an effect sent to a stereo bus can be a stereo effect. Not sure what that has to do with how many times you double track something though..?

..will I get a stereo effect when I process chorus and reverb for a stereo result, or do I have to copy/paste the mono vocal track, pan L/R a little, and THEN process effects for a stereo result?

If I read this right, the doubling and/or panning of the (dry) sources is it's self a stereo/thickening 'effect', the add-on stuff can either follow in mono or stereo, be independent or what ever.
Wayne

 

[punkin]

In SONAR, which delta audio drivers are you using? I personally don't use the "Multi" drivers. If I recall, it forced all the inputs as stereo pairs...I couldn't use them as seperate mono tracks.

I'm a little lost about your questions but, I'll tell you that I track groups as you've described them in mono and pan them into "the space" where you want them. If there's an acoustic guitar as the lead or focus in the group, I might stereo it but with two mics...not duplicating the same track and panning left/right. Sounds weird to me that way.

Sometimes a nifty effect would be to copy or duplicate a track or make an effects send...add a little delay or chorus to the duplicate trackor what ever to thicken things up a bit but I think what you're wanting is best done by laying down additional tracks. Meaning have the artist play the piece or section two or three times which makes it sound big and fat.

Hope that helps.

 

[Zed10R]

Tracking 'mono would be more typical I would think, and mono feeding an effect sent to a stereo bus can be a stereo effect. Not sure what that has to do with how many times you double track something though..?

When I track a guitar line twice the way I am doign it now, each track is split l and r, giving me 2 stereo guitar tracks. SO you are saying that if I track in mono and process that track through stereo effects, it will be a stereo track...yes??

[/QUOTE]If I read this right, the doubling and/or panning of the (dry) sources is it's self a stereo/thickening 'effect', the add-on stuff can either follow in mono or stereo, be independent or what ever.
Wayne[/QUOTE]

Yeah, you read right. I just don't want to loose any stereo imaging potential by tracking in mono.

Thanks.

 

[Zed10R]

In SONAR, which delta audio drivers are you using? I personally don't use the "Multi" drivers. If I recall, it forced all the inputs as stereo pairs...I couldn't use them as seperate mono tracks.

I use the Delta 1010 audio drivers.....not the LT version.....not really sure what YOU are asking.... But yeah...I must hook up hardware to the interface in stereo pairs or only one side, left or right, gets recorded.

.[/QUOTE]I'm a little lost about your questions but, I'll tell you that I track groups as you've described them in mono and pan them into "the space" where you want them. If there's an acoustic guitar as the lead or focus in the group, I might stereo it but with two mics...not duplicating the same track and panning left/right. Sounds weird to me that way..[/QUOTE]


I do NOT want to copy/paste the same track. I ALWAYS record the part at least twice if it is an instrument or backing vocal.

My basic question is, now that I've thought throught it bit more, is "how do I hook up a single channel mono preamp to my Delta 1010 interface so I do NOT have to record JUST the left side and the re-track to JUST the right side......can I get some kind of radio shack signal splitter so I can hook up the single line out to a stereo pair of inputs without degrading the signal?


[/QUOTE]Sometimes a nifty effect would be to copy or duplicate a track or make an effects send...add a little delay or chorus to the duplicate trackor what ever to thicken things up a bit but I think what you're wanting is best done by laying down additional tracks. Meaning have the artist play the piece or section two or three times which makes it sound big and fat.QUOTE]

Heheh...I do that already...I'm not THAT much of a nube... It's just the whole mono output being hooked up to a stereo input that has me less than comfortable. I could, for example, plug the pre into the mixer I have and PRESTO...problem soleved. The mixer sends the signal to BOTH left and right inputs in the interface, but that will color the signal. Even the guitar pre that I use to record some things direct with has a left out and right out for recording. That makes it easy...stereo outs hook up real easy to stereo ins.....but the mic pre is mono. A single line out.

I am poor at at articulating the thoughts in my head to words on the screen. i am sorry about that, and I appreciate any thoughts.

Thanks

 

[punkin]

I hear ya...sometimes getting a point across in this mannerd is less than ideal.

Let me see if we're getting closer to the situation...

The delta card pairs up inputs 1&2, 3&4, 5&6 and so on...they're listed as 1&2 left, 1&2 right and 1&2 stereo...the same for the rest of the inputs but, you don't have to use the stereo option. I just pick say 1/2 left for solo vocal, 1/2 right for bass or what ever. I think from your previous post you get that...just wanted to be sure.

I'm getting that you're doing single takes/tracks at a time and you're just jusing one preamp...you won't get "true stereo" this way. To get "true stereo" you'll need to get two mics. You can simulate it and/or add effects to produce stereo like imaging but it won't be exactly "stereo". If you're doing single takes/tracks during the mixdown, you would use your pan to place the sounds in the field...mix down to a stereo buss.

It seems like you're wanting to put each take/track onto a different input on the audio card. Unless I'm missing something, this really isn't necessary. Just leave the pre hooked up the the existing Delta input. Just add tracks in SONAR as necessary but continue to use the same input...that way you don't have to keep moving the cables around. If you had multiple mics and pres set up, that would be a different matter.

Any help this time?

 

[Zed10R]

I hear ya...sometimes getting a point across in this mannerd is less than ideal.

Let me see if we're getting closer to the situation...

The delta card pairs up inputs 1&2, 3&4, 5&6 and so on...they're listed as 1&2 left, 1&2 right and 1&2 stereo...the same for the rest of the inputs but, you don't have to use the stereo option. I just pick say 1/2 left for solo vocal, 1/2 right for bass or what ever. I think from your previous post you get that...just wanted to be sure.

Gotcha.....affermative...


[/QUOTE]
I'm getting that you're doing single takes/tracks at a time and you're just jusing one preamp...you won't get "true stereo" this way. To get "true stereo" you'll need to get two mics. You can simulate it and/or add effects to produce stereo like imaging but it won't be exactly "stereo". If you're doing single takes/tracks during the mixdown, you would use your pan to place the sounds in the field...mix down to a stereo buss.
[/QUOTE]

THAT'S the issue!!! OK - so in order to record one take in true stereo I need two mics and, I assume, two mono pre's or a multi channel pre...yes?? So for now I leave it plugged into 1&2 left (for example), record a couple mono tracks, pan them into the mix - mix down to "stereo". Yes?? So it would be better to get a multi channel pre so I can record one track with 2 mics and get "true stereo".....is that right? If that IS right, I am beginning to see a whole new set of possibilities I never thought of before.....

[/QUOTE]It seems like you're wanting to put each take/track onto a different input on the audio card. Unless I'm missing something, this really isn't necessary. Just leave the pre hooked up the the existing Delta input. Just add tracks in SONAR as necessary but continue to use the same input...that way you don't have to keep moving the cables around. If you had multiple mics and pres set up, that would be a different matter.

Any help this time?[/QUOTE]

I'm not moving any cables around or using different inputs for the second track....each input is used for a specific thing already. BUT...you have helped a great deal. Thank you.

 

[punkin]

Here's links for a little reading on Stereo concepts...it gets a little deep from time to time but it's pretty good. http://www.tape.com/Bartlett_Articles/stereo_microphone_techniques.html

One of the ideas to take from it is that stereo recording isn't a fit for everything. Plus things get a little complicated in terms of mic placement, phasing and the recording space plays a big part too. A few examples;

I almost always stereo mic acoustic (solo) guitars...sometimes add a third mic for more room ambiance. Electric guitars usually get two or more mics but not for "stereo" effect but rather blending/mixing to bring out the best in the cabinet by placing one on the cone center and another off-axis to get some of the cabinet's influence. Solo singer...not usually...drum set...always. It's going to be one of those "it depends on the situation" deals.

You might do a search here on the forums for "Stereo Micing" or "Stereo Recording".

Best luck to you.

 

[Zed10R]

Thanks punkin.....