defibrillators ~ "I know yo're out there somewhere" ~ help needed!

gecko zzed

gecko zzed

Grumpy Mod
I don't post many mixes in the MP3 clinic. That's because I'm happy to plunder the advice given to others on their mixes and apply to mine what is relevant, and I'm generally happy with how my mixes turn out.

This track, though, has driven me to distraction. I've been fart-arsing around with it for a couple of weeks now, and I've lost all sense of perspective. Sometimes I like various music elements of the mix, and at other times I don't. For example, some days I'm like, "that tom fill sounds weird and unusual, that's good," and other days I'm like "that sounds weird and unusual, it's crap."

One option is to set it aside and come back to it in a week or two with fresh ears. The other is to see what advice might emerge here.

The track is a defibrillators cover of a Moody Blues song, and the aim was to get a big concert feel about it, and I think that aim has kind of worked. But any help on how it sounds would be appreciated:

https://app.box.com/s/I know you're out there somewhere
 
To get it to feel bigger, don't think the instruments and the vocals need to be closer? Also, your bass is pushing the sub on my system a little harder than you probably intended. It doesn't feel big. Maybe wider panning?

Not sure if I am helping. Other than the bass, the mix wasn't bad, just not "big".
 
The essing on the intro vox is a bit of an annoyance - it creeps into somehow etc often too.
It seems to be an artifact of the reverb on the vocal - could you de ess or notch it out before the reverb?
The higher parts of the synth string line isn't too fabulous.
If you could get your hands on some Mellotron samples it'd sound more"right" to my ears - as I can't help but make comparison to the original.
Reaper has a "live" reverb setting that does a good job at concert sound.
The stereo image on this pretty good as there are a few high parts that you've used to give the width cues.

Generally it's really good.
How does it sound in mono?
 
All the instruments seems kind of set back in the mix. I'd suggest less width/pan on the drums. The synths seem low in the mix a lot of the time. I'm not sure of the reverb you're using - I noticed the essing in the intro, but the toms around 3:00 didn't sound right to me either.
 
I wasn't sure what to expect when I played this. With a name like the "Defibrillators" I expected something with a great deal more energy! :D

Firstly, I think you've created a massive space with that big reverb, but rather than making it into a big concert feel it has made the instruments sound weedy and lost in a huge auditorium, kind of like the PA isn't loud enough for the venue. The snare is one of the biggest problems to me - it has very little energy. It's very quiet and needs turning up. The vocal's about right in relation to the reverb space but everything else is too quiet in my opinion. There doesn't seem to be any action at all going on in the mids/upper mids to give the song energy either. You need a power ballad guitar, not too loud, just something to give the song body. Or a similarly full and textured synth pad if guitars aren't your thing.

Secondly, there's something wrong with those toms - they are the only part of the kit that is far enough forward, but I'm afraid those drums sound nothing like drums at all to me, they sound like they're made of plywood, skins and all! I'm sorry if this is all sounding really negative, but I hope it might give you some perspective, which is what you were asking for.

The song is good, I think, a good melody and supporting chords [edit: just realised this is a cover!] but it's all just been made... well... pleasant and inoffensive-sounding to the point where it's a bit bland. When the voice disappears, the song disappears, by the way. In the outro there's literally nothing left in the song except the drums bum-titting away in the distance.
I haven't meant to be harsh or deliberately negative in any of my comments, please don't take them that way.
 
it definitely needs to be me more forward overall, but especially the vocals;

the overall mix has too much sub bass, some high pass filters would work wonders! either a cut at 250Hz or boosting 3-5k would greatly improve the mix balance.
 
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I remember this tune! Wow, I haven't heard this in a very, very long time.

My thoughts:

- The bass needs a big presence boost.
- Vocal phrasing is off time in some places. Easy to slip into place in an editor.
- Vocals are sitting above the mix a little instead of gelling with it. Might just be level, but it sounds a little more like slightly too much body to me. More so in the verses, but the right cuts to the body won't affect the chorus.
- The synths in general could benefit some upper mid EQ to help them come forward in the mix a bit without increasing in level, although it sounds like they can come up a bit.
- Guitars could also stand some brightening and increased level.
- Bit of a muddiness in the reverb on the drums. If it is coming through in a bus, some cuts around 350 will help. Same idea if it is the 'room track'

Nice job. Some timing adjustments and more presence to a few elements will really make a nice difference, IMO.
 
Thanks for the comments, everyone. I appreciate the time you have taken to listen and respond.

There are lots of technical things that I can do straight up as a result of your suggestions.

However the suggestions also show why I have been going crazy. There are some that say to raise levels of guitars and synths, and some that say do this to the snare and so on . . . and this is, for me, a very tricky juggling act: trying to give each element the presence it needs without it overshadowing other elements. I reckon there is a very fine line of okayness that I haven't been able to find yet.
 
I think it's pretty good. I'm not really sure what you're going for so I can't say what you should do to get it where you want it. I'm more into a dryer and crisper sound. Trying to get some thump and power out of everything. This seems like it's in a huge room. What I normally do is screw around with the sound until I find something that works for me. I don't actually compare it to anything else or go for specific sounds. Once I find what I'm looking for I stick with it as closely as possible so I can get a good consistency from track to track. I never re-mix old mixes. If I'm going to do the song again I start over from scratch and bring it to the skill level I'm at now.

It would drive me CRAZY trying to get my old stuff that just wasn't recorded very well to begin with to sound good. I'm an impatient man :p
 
Yeah, there's definitely a strong sub bass pulse going on that, while kind of cool through phones, is unusual.

Overall it's kind of heavy on the low end.

I personally didn't care for the synth sound so much as it smacked of the '80's and not in the best way, but on the plus side, I can hear everything, and it sounds like it's in the same room, just one that's a bit too far away.

Kind of catchy actually. Sounds almost like a pop song that just wasn't mixed like a pop song.
 
Hey Gecko, this isn't really my era/style, but I thought it was a well played piece. The only performance nit I got is that phrasing seems a little off at times, like on "the strength of the emotion."

I think everyone's covered everything that struck me with the mix - more presence for the bass, some electric guitar power chords to give more body and give it more attitude. The guitar you've got in there currently isn't really doing anything for me. Seems like plenty of good advice in the thread :thumbs up:
 
Vocal's slightly pitchy at places like 0.09, 0.42, 3.48 but could probably use a bit of support in other places as well.

The drums: I don't expect them to sound like a 'real' kit because they're panned unnaturally wide, so I like the sound. When a kit's panned this wide, it seems less like drums to me and more like 'drum sound'. I like how the tom fills run out to hard right.

Arrangement: the synth sound is okay but uninspiring, so I find it a bit distracting when it's so busy behind the chorus vocal. I don't think you could mute the part, but could you whip up a simpler part for the chorus?

Sounds pretty good to me. Why not put it on the shelf for a week and listen again then? You'll hear lots of stuff then.
 
I think it's sounds pretty good also. I know the original pretty well as my old man is a big fan of The Moody's and I grew up listening to them. I agree with Heat RE:the bass. It's definitely a pumping a bit but a little cut could tame that.

I'll be interested to hear what you do to the mix with fresh ears after a week or so.

Good stuff for a start though. I enjoyed the listen. :thumbs up:
 
I have left the song since I posted it, and I on;ly felt brave enough to hjave another look at it today.

I have started the mix again from scratch, and the suggestions that posters have made are invaluable.

But I still have a way to go yet. Timing of the vocals I can fix. Pitchiness? Maybe, but that's about as good as it gets.

A lot of people have commented on the bass, so there is a bit of work to be done there . . . so somehow I have to manage level while preserving lowness.
 
Listening now...

This is pretty cool and full. It definitely has that "90s" arena rock feel. Feel free to disregard anything I type, but the only thing that's kind of bugging me is the verses kind of sound "Karaoke". I'm not talking singing badly, but the vocals sound a little disconnected from the background music (I don't feel that during the choruses). It's almost like the verse voice is too loud and has a different reverb on it...anyhoo...it over all sounds pretty damn good. It's a personal preference, but I'd tuck the synths back a bit and play up (or add) some distorted guitar... rock!

---------- Update ----------

Oh...I forgot to mention...I'm not really familiar with the original, so...
 
Ya...de-essing the opening vocal would help...it's distracting.

The bass is pretty mushy and loud....I'd try to thin it out with a cut at maybe 60 and then a bump at 1000 or 1500. It's more "thump" than tone the way it is...and it's making the low end way dominate. I'm thinking the rest of the mix is pretty even.

I don't think it needs re-tracking...just re-mixing. I like the performances the way they are.
 
Hey Gecko.

Were the vocals recorded at different times or in different places? The first verse sits on top of the mix and seems brighter than its surroundings - kinda likely doing vocals to a backing track.
The chorus and subsequent parts blend in better, to me.

Overall I do think there's a distance or ambience that could be pulled back without losing too much.
 
Can we have an update on this, Gecko? I feel like all of us criticising your mix might've knocked your confidence a bit. I certainly didn't mean to, I'm looking forward to hearing what you've done. :)
 
I've done a bit more work on this. Things happen slowly in my patch, because defibrillators stuff is a sideline, and other stuff hi-jacks my time. Additionally, my chief collaborator has been away. I'll post a new version as soon as it emerges. I appreciate the time HR members have taken to listen and comment, and I've endeavoured to incorporate their main points in a new mix.
 
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