Deciding On PA Equipment

  • Thread starter Thread starter Confusitron
  • Start date Start date
S0C9 said:
Confusitron,
At the risk of preaching some.......

I think you need to re-think your focus on an FOH board for live recording... First, most live recording (at the pro level) does not come from the FOH board. There's usually a snake splitter feed to the recording board, just as there is to the monitor mix. Why ? 'cus live boards are designed for gigs and not recording.

If you ABSOLUTLY have to have recording from your board, consider a 4 or 8 buss console. You are not going to get a quality recording from a 18 inputs to a 2 channel mix out, not unless your a darn good experienced engineer, and they are few and far between, and live AIN't Memorex. It will be OK, but not up to CD quality. Sure, lay down your click tracks that way, but come back and individually track later !!

Let's take a reality check...
2 guitar - 2 channels max (If needed)
4 keys - again, 2 channels max (you don't need stereo, and no-one tell the difference anyway. It's a nice to have)
7 drums (NOT !! - you can get by with Kick (AKG D112 or Audix D12), Snare/Hat (SM57) and 1 overhead (maybe 2) - so 4 at most
1 bass
1 percussion
5 vox - do you have to have all 5 or is it an ego-thing with the band... We do 4-part in our band, and that's hard enuf to separate... AND... how the heck are you going to provide monitor mixes for all these folks from ONE console ????

OK, that said, that's 15 channels loaded thru the PA. On club gigs, you can probably cut out the 2 guitars...
Now, figure out what your budget is... every one has a limit..

Start with venue size and work back... Clubs ? OK.
Speakers: - Full range (not bi-amped, $5-600 ea)) Yammy S215V, JBL JRX125's or Peavey SP4's.. If you got to have sub's that going to bump the price quite a bit...but Yammy SW115V ($399 ea) - two of each :))

AMPS: - for speakers above, Crown CE2000A2 (660w into 4-ohm stereo)- $650, or QSC RMX2450 (750w into 4-ohm stereo)- $590, or Crest CPX2600 (750w into 4-ohm stereo) - $550. TWO - if you Bi-amp as the second will run the subs, and then you need a cross-over too ($200+)!!

Now you're up to:
2 PA speakers (approx. $1200)
1 AMP (approx. $600)
Total: $1800.

If you bi-amp:
2 PA speakers (approx. $1200)
2 Subs speakers (approx. $800)
2 AMP (approx. $1200)
1 Crossover (approx $200)
Total: $3400

And we haven't even talked consoles yet - which you're going to need something like a 24-channel A&H GL2200 ($2000+ USED on Ebay)..

You will save yourself a lot of money if you can get buy with it 16-chan console - you can even get a 4-buss one quite cheaply. There's some good ones out there, but SPEND the money on a good board - an A&H or a Midas... It will be well worth your effort. Do not buy Behringer or Mackie (except the 16's) for live work...

OK. !! So, roughly $4000 so far....
and we haven't even talked monitor mix, monitors, monitor amps, snakes, etc.
See where I'm going ?

This post is long, because I went thru the same exact process 2-months ago. Take a good hard look at what you want to spend, and unload, setup, tweak, tear down and load again every gig !! KEEP IT SIMPLE and NOT TOO HEAVY !!! It get's old in a hurry.....lifting and setting up all that gear every night :)

Keep your costs manageable. You'll be glad you did. Buy the basics first and add other stuff as you go. Do NOT spend all you have saved.

You'll always need something else - got speaker cables ?? Speakon or 1/4's ??. Do you have a 1/3 Octave Dual EQ ?? You'll need one for the monitor mix, and possibly one for FOH. You may need Compressor(s) for bass, kick, snare and vocals ? How about an Antares ATR1 for vocal pitch correction. What ? You don't need pitch correction ! Your five vocalists sing 5-part harmonies and nail every one, every time. Sure.....Right on... every band should have at least one - set up as a channel insert. Nobody is perfect...

Hopefully this gave you some food for thought :)
Steve
Click to expand...
Thanks for the advice. I have changed my mind for the most part. The mixer will be used for the PA and not recording, not unless I just feel like recording us. Most likely, we'll start off with maybe a 20 channel powered mixer. I think we'll be excluding the subwoofers for now and just be working with two standard cabs.

I actually have a deal available to me right now... The deal includes:

(1) Yamaha EMX 5000 - 20 channel powered mixer
(2) Nady SPA850 power amps (with custom 8 unit wooden rack)
(2) Peavey SP 2 speakers
(1) Yamaha SW215IV subwoofer
(2) Speaker stands

I can get all of that for around $2000.

I can imagine that mixer is fine for our needs. How are the Nady power amps? Knowing Nady's reputation for their products, I can't imagine they're all that great. I could probably do without the subwoofer, so should I take it and resell it? As I see from the suggestions already in the thread, the Peavey SP2s seem like good speakers.

What do you think of the deal? We'd be picking it up ourselves, so there are no shipping charges.
 
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I'm a sound contractor and here are some of the best speakers you will hear.

This system is 3100watts self-powered and should do anything you need
http://www.isptechnologies.com/header.php?action=Products&&prodid=34

If you need something a little smaller these are 900watts self-powered and look at the freq chart - its ruller flat. I own a pair of these and they smoke.
http://www.isptechnologies.com/header.php?action=Products&&prodid=22

I'm a dealer for this company and have install a lot of the their products and I would rank them up there with Renkus-Heinz and EAW.
 
deepwater said:
I'm a sound contractor and here are some of the best speakers you will hear.

This system is 3100watts self-powered and should do anything you need
http://www.isptechnologies.com/header.php?action=Products&&prodid=34

If you need something a little smaller these are 900watts self-powered and look at the freq chart - its ruller flat. I own a pair of these and they smoke.
http://www.isptechnologies.com/header.php?action=Products&&prodid=22

I'm a dealer for this company and have install a lot of the their products and I would rank them up there with Renkus-Heinz and EAW.
Click to expand...
They look like they'd be quite good... They are also full range speakers. How much would it cost for me to purchase these?

I guess I'll say our budget is somewhere around $2000 - $2500 for the PA.
 
Here's one question: who is running the FOH? Cause if it's you, and you're in the band, lemme tell you I've done it, it ain't much fun. I got good tapes off the board, but how did it sound live? I have no idea.

The quality of the tech is far more important than number of channels or monitor mixes or effects boxes or busses on your mixer. Honestly if you can't get an acceptable sound for 100 people from an 8 channel powered box, two 15" cabs and four monitors, then either the sound guy is incompetent, the band members cannot play live, or it's some combination of the two.

The best pro guy I ever learned from produced a school program consisting of a play, the school band, and two choirs, often simultaneously, in a hall with the worst crap acoustics you can imagine. I think he used ten channels and 6 12" cabs on stands. It sounded great.

The most important concept you have to realize is that FOH in a small venue is sound reinforcement. If the natural sound of the band is crap, don't expect the PA to fix it. Why can't your two guitars get along? Why can't the drummer balance his kit?

Back to the equipment discussion. Personally, I've done similar work with a 16 channel Mackie, pair of Crown power amps (1000W bridged for mains, 500W for monitors), whatever pair of cabs you like, and monitors! You need three or four of these. Effects or dynamics if you like.

I'd run two guitars miced or direct, I'm not particular. Acoustics of most small venues is crap anyway to worry about the niceties of the sound quality of micing vs. DI. Two keys, Five vocals, three for drums, and bass. That's 14, two channels left for percussion or whatever. You can get an acceptable recording off of a board, no it's not studio quality but a competent tech should do fine. Let's say you take four tracks off the board, I'd group vocals, guitar, key/bass, and drums. Six I'd do stereo vocal & drum, eight you get separate tracks for each guitar and key.

The band gets TWO monitor mixes. Anything more is just a bunch of primadonnas. This ain't a mix tape, it's a concert! My preference is to give the keys their own mix, otherwise they will constantly turn themselves up, thus screwing with the FOH all the time. I hate keys and the musicians who play them. Unless you are on a big stage, the monitor mix should be good with just keys and vocals.

Don't forget a snake.
 
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