de-essing vocals

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frist44

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I've recently purchased a mindprint envoice that i'm using with a mxl v67 for vocals. Overall i'm happy with the sound, but the words with alot of 's' sound are really prominant. The mindprint has full eqing capabilities and i hoping someone could give me a certain frequency to cut down or a different mic technique to use when recording.

Right now, i'm recording about 8" from the mic with a pop-filter into the mindprint with some compression to prevent clipping but no eq. I figured if it need it, i would do it later. Right now aside from the de-essing it doesn't seem to need it, but i would really like to be able to cut down on those sounds before i enter the computer just so i don't have to worry about it later. My computer is "processingly challenged" so the less plug-ins active, the better.

Should i focus on a certain frequency to cut on the mindprint, or would singing off-axis help reduce this?

Please help.

Thanks~Brandon
 
Use your midrange option (as this will allow you to dial in a "q" factor). Try a Q of 2 or 3, and cut a few decibals somewhere between 5 and 10 khz. Play around untill you're happy .
 
I use a Mindprint as well, but my mic's a Rode NTK. I get problems with sibilance as well, but it reduces if I back off to about 8" from the mic, which is what you do.

I don't have any suggestions, but I want to raise some questions in addition to your own. I've been assuming the sibilance is more a matter of the mic than the mic plus pre combination I'm using. Do some pres actually tend toward sibilance?

Second question: chessrock suggested dealing with the sibilance problem at the tracking stage, and I have no problems with that, in fact that's the approach I like best - get it right when you're recording it. But how would this compare: run a de-esser on the sibilant recorded track in the mix?
 
try this

try desser on the track using your compressor
 
Mic position

Try moving the mic a few (3-4) inches above the vocalists mouth pointing at a slightly downward angle. The vocalist should be singing straight ahead, as usual, not up at the mic. This should help with sibiance as well as pops and breathe noises. Typically, I have the mic fairly close to the mouth (3-6in). It seems to give a bit more detail and fullness in the track. It works for me, but experimenting some with your setup is probably best.

The basic de-esser in Protools (full, LE, FREE) works pretty good, as well.
 
Yo Frist of the 44th Degree:

Somewhere in the labyrinth [nice word, huh?] of my storage area, I have a small black box which is a de-esser. It works quite well eliminating that nasty SSSSSSSSSSSSs like a cobra's hiss. But, when I got better mics and equipment, I unplugged the box -- one less route for the signal before it gets to the ultimate point in mix-down.

For some reason, women have more hissing that men; maybe because they get hissed-off easier?

Yeah, I couldn't resist.

For sure the mic screen will help. Sometimes tweaking the EQ on the vocal track will help. Sometimes a better recorder will do it.

Lots of good information from the troops.

Green Hornet
 
Thanks for all the good information.

Is this usually normal to get alot with this type of mic setup?

It seems like alot of people have a v67. I'm hoping someone with the same mic can give me their opinions on their experiences with the situation.

Is it the mic that emphasizes these frequencies? I want to try and reduce everything down to the simplist route. I record on-axis about 8" away. Is there a mic that anyone uses that records in a similar fashion, but doesn't get alot of the silibance?

I'm definitely going to try singing with the mic above my mouth and possibly off-axis to cut down on the high end.

What are some other mic placements people would try to defeat this problem?

Thanks again~Brandon
 
Yo Brandon:

It might help to take a peek into the MIC forum of BBs.

Also, there is a TON of information for you to look at on this site.

Keep recording and keep your head down when you swing a golf club.

Green Hornet
 
how to 'fatten' a prerecorded vocal?

i have some vocals already recorded and am not going to be able to retrack them quite yet. is there a way i can 'fatten' up a vocal track that already sounds a little thin? (i'll eventually get to retrack everything closer to the mic but it may be several weeks...and i don't want to wait that long.)

THANKS!!!!!
 
You said you compress during tracking.....check the attack setting of your vocals.If you set your attack to slow you will create exaggerated sibilance.
 
I'm assuming you mean that slow button on the mindprint. It has no attack or release settings, but the slow button isn't engaged, so I'm doing the best I can with what i have i suppose.

I did some things with mic placement the other night and got a decent sound from recording about 6" to the side of the mic so the silibance seemed to travel to the side of the mic.

Then i moved on to another song and recorded on-axis and it wasn't really a problem. So i'm assuming half the problem was the lyrics and vocal style, but it's good to know how to combat that problem if it comes up again.

I do have the waves de-esser so i guess in an extreme scenario I could use that to lessen the harshness.

thanks everyone for the helpful ideas.
 
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