Bobbsy
Boring Old Git
They do indeed. You can buy some from my wife's web site if you want! (Along with Tektites and various crystals and minerals and jewellery...)
DAW vs other Workflow. Frustrated with computers...
- Thread starter mariosapm
- Start date
They do indeed. You can buy some from my wife's web site if you want! (Along with Tektites and various crystals and minerals and jewellery...)
mjbphotos
Moderator
DebErney
New member
I have the same problems. It seems once I get the tracks recorded and starting to produce them I always get latency problems. I've done everything suggested with larger buffers, more memory, using Macintosh, separate hard drive, bigger, better but latency has always been an issue.
I've gotten really good results using a stand alone recorder, ZOOM R16, to record clean tracks, then I mix them down on the computer. When you look at stand alone recorders TASCAMS WARRANTY IS ONLY 90 days for labor. I learned this the hard way when I brought my 92 day old PORTASTUDIO DP-24 into the TASCAM warranted repair center to be told I had to fork over $130 for them to look at it, then pay for labor at $120 an hour. ZOOM IS ONE YEAR parts and labor, I have replaced all my TASCAM equipment with ZOOM.
TASCAM recorders have a bright, clean sound. The ZOOM products have more of a warm sound to them. They are both fairly easy to use, pretty much plugin and record. I just sold a ZOOM H4N, which I loved. Had great sound, portable but was a bit hard to get levels setup quickly for rehearsals. The ZOOM R16 I have is very portable, easy to setup and records 8 tracks at once.
CUBASE is a pretty complicated recording solution. There are programs that are easier to use. REAPER and GARAGEBAND are two that I have stuck with. Tried LOGIC, TRACKTION, CUBASE, very steep learning curve. AUDICITY is a decent freebie for cleaning up tracks.
I've gotten really good results using a stand alone recorder, ZOOM R16, to record clean tracks, then I mix them down on the computer. When you look at stand alone recorders TASCAMS WARRANTY IS ONLY 90 days for labor. I learned this the hard way when I brought my 92 day old PORTASTUDIO DP-24 into the TASCAM warranted repair center to be told I had to fork over $130 for them to look at it, then pay for labor at $120 an hour. ZOOM IS ONE YEAR parts and labor, I have replaced all my TASCAM equipment with ZOOM.
TASCAM recorders have a bright, clean sound. The ZOOM products have more of a warm sound to them. They are both fairly easy to use, pretty much plugin and record. I just sold a ZOOM H4N, which I loved. Had great sound, portable but was a bit hard to get levels setup quickly for rehearsals. The ZOOM R16 I have is very portable, easy to setup and records 8 tracks at once.
CUBASE is a pretty complicated recording solution. There are programs that are easier to use. REAPER and GARAGEBAND are two that I have stuck with. Tried LOGIC, TRACKTION, CUBASE, very steep learning curve. AUDICITY is a decent freebie for cleaning up tracks.
bouldersoundguy
Well-known member
There's a setting in most DAWs to correct for record offset/record latency. Buffers, memory, OS and separate drives have nothing to do with it.
jamusic
New member
I'll be ready to swear BY Cubase, just as soon as I'm done swearing AT it!
Just kidding - love it!
skywaveTDR
Active member
I may be of the old world. However I have worked with the audio editing software and work stations at many Radio stations and they can be a problem for the creative but not technical people. Then there are the people that work it every day and hit a hot key that no one knows about which upsets all kinds of things. This is when the Engineer at the station has to figure it all out and that is besides my computer is too slow because they over load it with all kinds of files and never defragment the drives.
Certainly Open Reels such as a Tascam 38 or higher models are easier to work with and I know some people that can hardly figure out how to work a computer that get jobs done on these decks. Well I am out of Radio Engineering now but in that I am still fixing a lot of open reels decks and some of the multitrack cassette decks. You might say that I am overloaded with folks that want to get back to this older stuff. Yes, I know plenty of people that know how to work with computers too - the stuff we had was usually the high end stuff. Pro Tools and Adobe Audition. It sure was complicated. We never even touched on the requirement to back up and protect projects from drive crashes- I have seen a few of those too. Reel decks usually do not crash.
Certainly Open Reels such as a Tascam 38 or higher models are easier to work with and I know some people that can hardly figure out how to work a computer that get jobs done on these decks. Well I am out of Radio Engineering now but in that I am still fixing a lot of open reels decks and some of the multitrack cassette decks. You might say that I am overloaded with folks that want to get back to this older stuff. Yes, I know plenty of people that know how to work with computers too - the stuff we had was usually the high end stuff. Pro Tools and Adobe Audition. It sure was complicated. We never even touched on the requirement to back up and protect projects from drive crashes- I have seen a few of those too. Reel decks usually do not crash.
jamusic
New member
My first DAW was Sonar 6 Studio all the way up to Sonar X2d.
A few years ago, I bought the upgrades to Presonus Studio One 2 Professional from my StudioLive 16.4.2 mixer purchase.
Just before the release of Sonar X3, [which I passed on], for the first time ever, I paid the full price [minus $130.00 discount] for a DAW - Cubase 6.5, which also included the full version of HALion 4 & the free updates to Cubase 7 & HALion 5.
I've since gladly paid the $49 upgrade to 7.5.20.
If it wasn't for messing around with Sonar & Studio One for a while, I might have found Cubase more difficult, but I was able to dive right in and was recording within minutes of having everything set up.
I can see how some might think it's complicated, but I think you're either gonna get serious about your investment & take the time to learn something worthwhile - or you're not.
I'm willing to try & learn & mess up a bit & read the manual & read & post in a few forums, etc., etc.. and then do it all over & over again & again.
After spending a lifetime of doing music, I'm serious enough about my tunes to properly learn what it takes.
Of those 3 DAWs, Cubase is the one that works best for me, and is the one I have more to show for & from after about 6 months, than the other 2 over the last 6 years.
I can't even remember the last time I opened the other 2.
A few years ago, I bought the upgrades to Presonus Studio One 2 Professional from my StudioLive 16.4.2 mixer purchase.
Just before the release of Sonar X3, [which I passed on], for the first time ever, I paid the full price [minus $130.00 discount] for a DAW - Cubase 6.5, which also included the full version of HALion 4 & the free updates to Cubase 7 & HALion 5.
I've since gladly paid the $49 upgrade to 7.5.20.
If it wasn't for messing around with Sonar & Studio One for a while, I might have found Cubase more difficult, but I was able to dive right in and was recording within minutes of having everything set up.
I can see how some might think it's complicated, but I think you're either gonna get serious about your investment & take the time to learn something worthwhile - or you're not.
I'm willing to try & learn & mess up a bit & read the manual & read & post in a few forums, etc., etc.. and then do it all over & over again & again.
After spending a lifetime of doing music, I'm serious enough about my tunes to properly learn what it takes.
Of those 3 DAWs, Cubase is the one that works best for me, and is the one I have more to show for & from after about 6 months, than the other 2 over the last 6 years.
I can't even remember the last time I opened the other 2.
BroKen_H
Re-member
The same story with me. I used Cakewalk until XL Home Studio. Then got Reason 3.0 and have updated every time to the newest version 7.1. Now, Reason has not always been the best DAW on the market, and most people still take one look at the name and say "EDM." It has evolved into so much more.
The point is, In the last six months I've gotten more accomplished that sounds WAY BETTER than I did in the past 7 years. Whereas Cubase and a lot of others have a steep learning curve, Reason is just intuitive and EASY. You can make decent music with Reason right of the line if you have ANY studio or live sound experience. And then, when you start learning all the little things you can do to make it better, WOW! As I've learned about topics like subtractive EQ, sidechaining, different types of compression (and multi-band) and applied my knowledge to my music, it has become cleaner and clearer. Yesterday, I learned that you can parallel process with the SSL desk and I'm remembering all the stuff we did in the studio with that process, reapplying it and getting better still.
Then there's the back of the rack (and this is some of my favorite stuff). You can literally rewire, CV, and chain to your heart's desire back there and completely change the signal chain in a "just like the real world" environment. Good stuff.
There are drawbacks to Reason. One, I can't find the project folders, making it imperative to keep my computer running. What happens when I lose the HD? (This is huge and I'm looking for an answer). Every time you restart a project that's been moved, you have to find all the EXACT samples that you used before, or replace them one by one. This is time consuming.
Two, it's REALLY difficult to use external plug ins. Propellerhead sells a long list of great plugs, but getting, say a CLA or a LA-2A compressor plug to play is DIFFICULT. VST's can be used with the new MIDI out, but on bus plugs, if it ain't RE, it won't work.
Anyway, still love this DAW. Just have to make sure to do and use the RIGHT things to save yourself time in the future. Today, it's easy and wonderful to make, record, mix and master music...
The point is, In the last six months I've gotten more accomplished that sounds WAY BETTER than I did in the past 7 years. Whereas Cubase and a lot of others have a steep learning curve, Reason is just intuitive and EASY. You can make decent music with Reason right of the line if you have ANY studio or live sound experience. And then, when you start learning all the little things you can do to make it better, WOW! As I've learned about topics like subtractive EQ, sidechaining, different types of compression (and multi-band) and applied my knowledge to my music, it has become cleaner and clearer. Yesterday, I learned that you can parallel process with the SSL desk and I'm remembering all the stuff we did in the studio with that process, reapplying it and getting better still.
Then there's the back of the rack (and this is some of my favorite stuff). You can literally rewire, CV, and chain to your heart's desire back there and completely change the signal chain in a "just like the real world" environment. Good stuff.
There are drawbacks to Reason. One, I can't find the project folders, making it imperative to keep my computer running. What happens when I lose the HD? (This is huge and I'm looking for an answer). Every time you restart a project that's been moved, you have to find all the EXACT samples that you used before, or replace them one by one. This is time consuming.
Two, it's REALLY difficult to use external plug ins. Propellerhead sells a long list of great plugs, but getting, say a CLA or a LA-2A compressor plug to play is DIFFICULT. VST's can be used with the new MIDI out, but on bus plugs, if it ain't RE, it won't work.
Anyway, still love this DAW. Just have to make sure to do and use the RIGHT things to save yourself time in the future. Today, it's easy and wonderful to make, record, mix and master music...
canadayjack
New member
Cubase. I love it and hate it. I too have fallen into the crevasse of getting more gear and upgrading to the point of sickness. The advice of dedicating and isolating your recording system has proven to be the best solution for most of my issues. I started on Cubase LE 5 and have upgraded to Cubase 7 with many issues that you all have unknowingly seen me through. Thank you for all of your insight an allowing others to share in your experience. I am still a novice compared to guys like Rami an Miroslav but I feel very confident that I am in the right place to remedy that.
I was in a great mood wanting to record some new inspiration. Started round 18.00 o'clock and I just quit troubleshooting at 23.00. Had cable problems. Then I had no sound coming out (turned out it needed just a restart). Then I had noise from whenever I used the touchpad. I was fixing a problem and a new one was showing up. I've done this routine quite a few times. Now it's pretty late and I have no mood to record at all. There goes Sunday afternoon. 
JimmyS1969
MOODerator
Likely much less than the laptop cost you...
How are you setup with the laptop as far as what your are using for interface, record drive, OS, etc. What is the laptop model?
Sorry if you have already provided this info. I'm kinda busy and didn't read through the thread.
Optimization for audio performance is even more important with a laptop. They are setup at factory to maintain highest battery life. This involves shutting things down when idle. Very bad thing for audio recording. Anyway, again sorry if you gave this info already.
Armistice
Son of Yoda
My entire 16 GB Zeon, SSD/7200, RME UCX, dual monitor set up cost less than the PRS Custom 22 that I rarely play. And it works. Every time. No latency... gazillions of tracks. It gets used only for recording / editing and doesn't have virus protection or internet connectivity, unless I'm updating software. That's the way to go, long term...
jamusic
New member
Oh Man! Don't you f'n hate that??I was in a great mood wanting to record some new inspiration. Started round 18.00 o'clock and I just quit troubleshooting at 23.00. Had cable problems. Then I had no sound coming out (turned out it needed just a restart). Then I had noise from whenever I used the touchpad. I was fixing a problem and a new one was showing up. I've done this routine quite a few times. Now it's pretty late and I have no mood to record at all. There goes Sunday afternoon.
Been there, 'hated' that many times. Last time was about 2-3 months ago.
The worst part is when it's just a cable, or a restart or something simple like that.
But when you're frustrated & growing increasingly tired & impatient, it just goes from bad to worse!
I feel for ya there Bud!
DebErney
New member
Mariosapm has described my experiences perfectly. This is exactly why I record on the stand alone then mix on the computer. Yeah, there is always one button (or ten, in exactly the right configuration and sequence) that could maybe fix your problem but by the time I get them figured out, several hours later only to begin to record an idea that has long gone and been replaced with computer problems, glitches, etc...
CoolCat
Well-known member
I have gone from the 4 to 8 tr cassette to adat to md to hd to 2488 to DAW.
Then Ive tried numerous interfaces, USB, PCI, Firewire, and a few DAW softwares.
The most fun one I've had in simplicity for a "musician" is the Line 6 stuff using Gearbox and PodFarm.
I dropped it on my sons pc the other day for a user test, and he said "its so fn easy to use and has all the stuff...a very short learning curve too."
and he uses Reaper and Fruity Loops.
the thing I think makes the Line6 gearbox so easy is the layout, its like recording what you hear and its setup like a plug in the mic....turn up the gain on the volume and then open GearBox and select the pedals or Vocal preamps and fx...or Bass sim amps and Guitar sim amps....set your tones and noise...then in Reaper simply hit record, no plug ins or any of that. (you can if you want...you can record dry in and add plugs if you want too)
DAW/Reaper you have pan and volume sliders and ability to edit is amazing, and easy.
and for me, a below average player, its just more fun.
There is one setup I havent tried and thats the Allen/Heth Zed r16 or Yamaha n16 with old school mixing board and multiple track outs that tie-into the DAW....in this setup basically replacing the old reel to reel with the daw. That could be cool to have a real mixing analog board tied into the DAW, sliders and all..... but like Rami said, you cant even come close to all the free plugs you can get and in other words.. the DAW tromps the other methods, unless you want to splice tape and demagnetize cassette heads or rewind ADAT tapes. ymmv
Then Ive tried numerous interfaces, USB, PCI, Firewire, and a few DAW softwares.
The most fun one I've had in simplicity for a "musician" is the Line 6 stuff using Gearbox and PodFarm.
I dropped it on my sons pc the other day for a user test, and he said "its so fn easy to use and has all the stuff...a very short learning curve too."
and he uses Reaper and Fruity Loops.
the thing I think makes the Line6 gearbox so easy is the layout, its like recording what you hear and its setup like a plug in the mic....turn up the gain on the volume and then open GearBox and select the pedals or Vocal preamps and fx...or Bass sim amps and Guitar sim amps....set your tones and noise...then in Reaper simply hit record, no plug ins or any of that. (you can if you want...you can record dry in and add plugs if you want too)
DAW/Reaper you have pan and volume sliders and ability to edit is amazing, and easy.
and for me, a below average player, its just more fun.
There is one setup I havent tried and thats the Allen/Heth Zed r16 or Yamaha n16 with old school mixing board and multiple track outs that tie-into the DAW....in this setup basically replacing the old reel to reel with the daw. That could be cool to have a real mixing analog board tied into the DAW, sliders and all..... but like Rami said, you cant even come close to all the free plugs you can get and in other words.. the DAW tromps the other methods, unless you want to splice tape and demagnetize cassette heads or rewind ADAT tapes. ymmv
CoolCat
Well-known member
I was in a great mood wanting to record some new inspiration. Started round 18.00 o'clock and I just quit troubleshooting at 23.00. Had cable problems. Then I had no sound coming out (turned out it needed just a restart). Then I had noise from whenever I used the touchpad. I was fixing a problem and a new one was showing up. I've done this routine quite a few times. Now it's pretty late and I have no mood to record at all. There goes Sunday afternoon.
lol
im bad about using my recording pc for surfing and online connections which leave you open for frkn updates and other crap that can "move your software around and change usb settings...arrrrgg
Bobbsy
Boring Old Git
Obviously it's a case of using what you're most comfortable with but, just to put the other side, I don't have any of those problems. My DAW (Audition) has the ability to store templates for what ever sort of recording you want and I now have these for 2 track recording, 4 track recording, 8 track recording 16 track, 24 track and 32 track. I just select the best option for the project I'm doing, plug in the mics, set levels (both of which you'd have to do on a stand alone) and go.
As for glitching etc., that's down to how you set up and maintain your computer--and the housekeeping you need for audio work is a good idea anyway. It's also not something you have to do before every session.