DAW vs Classic Reel to Reel, Bitter?

[NYMorningstar]

What makes them bitter is that all that teen does these days is cop a hack of Cubase, and they are hanging out Internet shingles calling themselves "studios", "mastering engineers", and - if you're into hip hop - "producers", even though they couldn't record or mix a decent track to save their lives.

It cheapens the industry, it cheapens the titles, and it insults those who actually are qualified to have those titles and perform those duties. But it's not the gear or it's availability or its cheapeness that's at fault; it's the poeple who try to short cut and easy button themselves to those titles that are at fault.
G.

This is an age old problem with every industry and nothing to be bitter about. The worst scenario is you end up with a lousy recording. Things could be worse. You could be driving downhill towards a crowd of people when you hit your brakes and they don't work because your mechanic(backyard) just fixed them

We should embrace what our kids are doing(cept for the stealing part) and encourage them to keep producing and learning. At the least they're off the streets and all that jazz!

 

[IainDearg]

Despite the fact that DAW stands for Discount Analogue Workaround, I am a digital convert. I used to record reel-to-reel.

The quality that some folks call tape and analogue warmth are, in fact, distortions that tape machine and outboard gear manufacturers spent lots of resource and money trying to design out. They were preceived limitations of the equipment.

These days plug-in coders spend resource and money designing these imperfections back in.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

We should embrace what our kids are doing(cept for the stealing part) and encourage them to keep producing and learning. At the least they're off the streets and all that jazz!

Oh, I agree with that aspect of it. I encourage and support the rookies to do their best...hell, if I didn't I wouldn't be spending my time here.

It's the perception or attitude that just having the gear is all one needs to to it that I disagree with. And when it's taken to the point where someone with no experience, an MBox, a copy of PTLE, and a copy of Ozone starts advertising themselves as a "mastering company", or someone who's sum total of experience is to be able to put together a few sampled sequences calls themselves a "producer", or even someone who goes out and spends $5-$10 grand on a project studio and then asks unanswerable questions along the lines of "what settings do I use to make a pro record", that it gets a bit insulting to the industry.

Again, the question, as I understood it, was "is the fact that modern technology makes the engineering process easy what makes old-timers bitter?" And my reply is, no, it's not the new technology that gives us a problem; it's the false perception on which the question itself is based - that it is indeed easier - that gets at least some of us upset.

And that is also the reason why many of us are even here at this forum. We're trying to help remedy the stiuation somewhat. There are a lot of audio machine guns getting into the hands of young rookies these days, and there a whole lot of bad information out there on the right way to point and shoot them. Out of respect for the rookies and for the industry and for the music itself, we're trying to help guide the new audio soldiers through their training in a way that'll keep the collateral damage to a minimum.

G.

 

[leddy]

Oh, I agree with that aspect of it. I encourage and support the rookies to do their best...hell, if I didn't I wouldn't be spending my time here.

It's the perception or attitude that just having the gear is all one needs to to it that I disagree with. And when it's taken to the point where someone with no experience, an MBox, a copy of PTLE, and a copy of Ozone starts advertising themselves as a "mastering company", or someone who's sum total of experience is to be able to put together a few sampled sequences calls themselves a "producer", or even someone who goes out and spends $5-$10 grand on a project studio and then asks unanswerable questions along the lines of "what settings do I use to make a pro record", that it gets a bit insulting to the industry.

Again, the question, as I understood it, was "is the fact that modern technology makes the engineering process easy what makes old-timers bitter?" And my reply is, no, it's not the new technology that gives us a problem; it's the false perception on which the question itself is based - that it is indeed easier - that gets at least some of us upset.

And that is also the reason why many of us are even here at this forum. We're trying to help remedy the stiuation somewhat. There are a lot of audio machine guns getting into the hands of young rookies these days, and there a whole lot of bad information out there on the right way to point and shoot them. Out of respect for the rookies and for the industry and for the music itself, we're trying to help guide the new audio soldiers through their training in a way that'll keep the collateral damage to a minimum.

G.

Spot on, though I thought it is worth a mention that recording is not the only industry plagued by noobs that claim to be pros.

There's all kinds of businesses where the only entry barrier is the cost of the equipment to do it. The skill of the operator is not regulated. The market will ultimately select the baseline for acceptable work and appropriate price. That may suck, but the professional recording industry also has the option of self-regulating: Come up with some minimum standard of education / experience (and possibly a way to test for it), and create an organization where members have met this criteria and can advertise as such. Then there is an objective way for consumers to differentiate. Many other industries do it. Perhaps it's not realistic that the recording industry would go this far, but if it is really a problem then someone would step up and make it happen.

Besides, I submit that the vast majority of people using cheapo studios and mastering facilities would probably not be recording at all if those facilities didn't exist. The only reason most of them are even creating music in the first place is that it has become much easier to do so with the increase in electronic music. Just as many folks don't want to pay dues in recording, even more folks don't want to pay dues before calling themselves a "musician".

I don't know what the answer is, I'm just throwing out food for thought as I see it.

 

[Cult_Status02]

But that's just my point, Cult. There is no difference. Anybdy can plug a mic into an open reel tape deck and record just the same way as they can with a soundblaster card. This is exactly what people from Les Paul to Alan Lomax to my grandfather with his old Sony used to do. When I built my first home studio back in '79, recording everything to a Teac 3340 4-track (which was the real tits at the time) and a Pioneer RT1020L two-track SWS, I had no mixer the way we know them now. We jerry rigged our signal paths the same way newbs to this forum do now with their stuff.

It doesn't take any more skill to record to tape than it does to record to Soundblaster. Both will come out sounding like crap if you don't know what you're doing and will sound decent if you do know what you're doing.

Honestly, the main difference between today and, say, 30 years ago, are that people have more money today. Even adjusting for inflation, the standard of living has gone way up. This, combined with the the decreasing costs of electronic processing power has put technical (if not sonic) capabilities that used to be only available at The Power Station recording studio in the hands of your average teen.

Does that make the old guard bitter? Not in and of itself, no. Not the technology. What makes them bitter is that all that teen does these days is cop a hack of Cubase, and they are hanging out Internet shingles calling themselves "studios", "mastering engineers", and - if you're into hip hop - "producers", even though they couldn't record or mix a decent track to save their lives.

It cheapens the industry, it cheapens the titles, and it insults those who actually are qualified to have those titles and perform those duties. But it's not the gear or it's availability or its cheapeness that's at fault; it's the poeple who try to short cut and easy button themselves to those titles that are at fault.

G.

Thanks Glenn,

I guess I definately didn't see it the right way. That's a great answer that puts it into perspective. Me being ignorant of the analog world, I thought it seemed more difficult. So I thought many people using anaolg may not be happy with cutting tape becoming a lost art and that sort of thing. However, I see now that the thing that bothers most people are the people that taint the water for everyone else. Because of all the 14 year olds that are "mastering engineers" around here, whenever I see an edvertisement for someone that masters I think it is a joke.

Sorry to anyone that got pissed about this thread, it was very innocent.